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From: Hatunen on 10 Aug 2010 13:40 On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:06:25 +0200, Donna Evleth <devleth(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: >> From: John Rennie <john-rennie(a)talktalk.net> >> Didn't deserve it on the domestic front but oh dear when it came >> to dealing with Stalin he was just very weak. Why I think he was >> more anti the British Empire (and Churchill) than the Soviet Union. >> Of course the man was very ill and that does make a difference. > >You also have to remember how isolationist America was before WWII. It was >a general atmosphere, and Roosevelt, in spite of his broader education, was >bound to get caught up in it. My impression from reading the histories of the era was that FDR wasn't so caught up in isolationism as that he was politically obligated to pay due respect to it until he could find a reason for the country to want to lose its isolationist sentiments. Needless to say, the Axis obliged him, Japan giving a real jolt to isolationism with respect to the Pacific, and Hitler's gratuitous declaration of war on the USA giving a reason to join in the fight in Europe. A lot of FDR's pussyfooting was to avoid upsetting an isolationist Congress, and even lend-lease had to be carefully defended with that hose-borrowing metaphor. Unfortunately, FDR did have a rather large ego and thought he and Uncle Joe were buddies and Uncle Joe was just a peace-loving dictator who really respected the independence of adjoining neighbors. FDR also though Churchill was a drunk and untrustworthy and trying to save the British Empire, which FDR disdained. Not to mention that the torch of North Atlantic and world leadership was passing from Britain to America. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Markku Grönroos on 10 Aug 2010 14:00 10.8.2010 20:40, Hatunen kirjoitti: > Viititk� menn� muualle ristiinpostaamasta t�t� sontaa.
From: John Rennie on 10 Aug 2010 14:27 Hatunen wrote: > On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:06:25 +0200, Donna Evleth > <devleth(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: > >>> From: John Rennie <john-rennie(a)talktalk.net> > >>> Didn't deserve it on the domestic front but oh dear when it came >>> to dealing with Stalin he was just very weak. Why I think he was >>> more anti the British Empire (and Churchill) than the Soviet Union. >>> Of course the man was very ill and that does make a difference. >> You also have to remember how isolationist America was before WWII. It was >> a general atmosphere, and Roosevelt, in spite of his broader education, was >> bound to get caught up in it. > > My impression from reading the histories of the era was that FDR > wasn't so caught up in isolationism as that he was politically > obligated to pay due respect to it until he could find a reason > for the country to want to lose its isolationist sentiments. > Needless to say, the Axis obliged him, Japan giving a real jolt > to isolationism with respect to the Pacific, and Hitler's > gratuitous declaration of war on the USA giving a reason to join > in the fight in Europe. > > A lot of FDR's pussyfooting was to avoid upsetting an > isolationist Congress, and even lend-lease had to be carefully > defended with that hose-borrowing metaphor. > > Unfortunately, FDR did have a rather large ego and thought he and > Uncle Joe were buddies and Uncle Joe was just a peace-loving > dictator who really respected the independence of adjoining > neighbors. FDR also though Churchill was a drunk and > untrustworthy and trying to save the British Empire, which FDR > disdained. Not to mention that the torch of North Atlantic and > world leadership was passing from Britain to America. > It had already passed but isolationist America had refused to acknowledge it. Yes Churchill was a drunk not that that fault did him much harm and he was still in the 19th century as regards the British Empire. However Roosevelt's tactics in endeavouring to exclude him from the cosy chats he had with Stalin were stupid.
From: freeisbest on 10 Aug 2010 14:33 On Aug 10, 2:00 pm, Markku Grönroos <cucum...(a)hassuserveri.fi> wrote: > 10.8.2010 20:40, Hatunen kirjoitti: > > Viititkö mennä muualle ristiinpostaamasta tätä sontaa. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Sure, easy for you to say.
From: Hatunen on 10 Aug 2010 15:54
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:27:41 +0100, John Rennie <john-rennie(a)talktalk.net> wrote: >Hatunen wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:06:25 +0200, Donna Evleth >> <devleth(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: >> >>>> From: John Rennie <john-rennie(a)talktalk.net> >> >>>> Didn't deserve it on the domestic front but oh dear when it came >>>> to dealing with Stalin he was just very weak. Why I think he was >>>> more anti the British Empire (and Churchill) than the Soviet Union. >>>> Of course the man was very ill and that does make a difference. >>> You also have to remember how isolationist America was before WWII. It was >>> a general atmosphere, and Roosevelt, in spite of his broader education, was >>> bound to get caught up in it. >> >> My impression from reading the histories of the era was that FDR >> wasn't so caught up in isolationism as that he was politically >> obligated to pay due respect to it until he could find a reason >> for the country to want to lose its isolationist sentiments. >> Needless to say, the Axis obliged him, Japan giving a real jolt >> to isolationism with respect to the Pacific, and Hitler's >> gratuitous declaration of war on the USA giving a reason to join >> in the fight in Europe. >> >> A lot of FDR's pussyfooting was to avoid upsetting an >> isolationist Congress, and even lend-lease had to be carefully >> defended with that hose-borrowing metaphor. >> >> Unfortunately, FDR did have a rather large ego and thought he and >> Uncle Joe were buddies and Uncle Joe was just a peace-loving >> dictator who really respected the independence of adjoining >> neighbors. FDR also though Churchill was a drunk and >> untrustworthy and trying to save the British Empire, which FDR >> disdained. Not to mention that the torch of North Atlantic and >> world leadership was passing from Britain to America. >> >It had already passed but isolationist America had >refused to acknowledge it. Yes Churchill was a drunk >not that that fault did him much harm and he was >still in the 19th century as regards the British >Empire. However Roosevelt's tactics in endeavouring >to exclude him from the cosy chats he had with Stalin >were stupid. Since Winston persisted in caliming Uncle Joe was not to be trusted, he was placed in the role of a Cassandra. Among the occasional "what-ifs" of history I wonder what if FDR had lived a few years longer would he have finally recognized Stalin for what he was? Perhaps it was fortuitous that Truman became president before the war ended. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |