From: hummingbird on
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:42:03 GMT 'Jim Ley'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

>On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:02:12 +0000, hummingbird
><RHBIYDTNPPAX(a)spammotel.com> wrote:
>
>>You seem to have a comprehension problem Jim.
>
>Unless you were on a very different aircraft than normally flies the
>route, there were World Traveller Plus seats, just because you didn't
>see them, doesn't mean they weren't there - you weren't able to find
>the booking class on the web either.

I don't understand your point. I have already said that I saw no seats
other than economy and business classes and I walked the whole length
of the cabin before we took off ...*and* I wouldn't have been
interested in paying extra for a seat which gave me more legroom
anyway.
What I believe is most inadequate is the *width* of seats.
They are only suitable for people who are of small-to-medium build.
Anybody who is slightly wider than either of these tends to overflow
into the adjacent seats as I previously explained.
This is what happened to me on that BA flight. Got it yet?

I also don't understand your comment "you weren't able to find the
booking class on the web either". I didn't even look for such a thing.


>>2. I repeat: when I booked my flight I was not offered such a seat.
>
>You weren't "offered" anything, you chose to use an execution only
>service where you choose what to buy - expedia, not a travel agent,
>hence my advice in future to use a travel agent.

Nonsense.
Legally speaking, anything Expedia sells on its websites is an offer.

The Expedia website 'offers' a set of classes when booking flights.
FYI it appears in a drop down window.
The only options 'offered' to me were economy, business and first.

Got it yet?

It may be the case that high street travel agents have additional
options which Expedia don't offer ..I dunno. But I repeat: I would
not be interested in paying extra for a seat with more legroom.

What I believe is inadequate is the *width* of seats and the only
alternative to this is to buy business or first at massively higher
cost...and I'm sure the airlines know this very well. As I alluded
to earlier, airlines do not fit out their planes in the interests of
their passengers but in the interests of their own business bottom
line. The result is that Economy passengers are herded like cattle
and this encourages some of them to upgrade at much higher cost.

Do you understand how business works?


>>Why you think a travel agent would do better than me is a mystery.
>
>Because you were too incompetent to find the seats available on a
>flight, and are under the mistaken belief that there were only one
>provider with economy plus serving asia.

Insults will not get you very far with me Jim.
From: hummingbird on
On 27 Feb 2007 20:27:42 -0800 'Tchiowa'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

>On Feb 28, 6:02 am, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:16:13 GMT 'Jim Ley'
>> posted this onto rec.travel.air:
>>
>> >On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:00:26 +0000, hummingbird
>> ><RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote:
>> >>>BA0010 definately has a World Traveller
>> >>>Plus cabin and a travel agent would've found it (quite how you managed
>> >>>to not find it is a surprise to me)
>> >>My ticket was already classified as World Traveller and I saw no seats
>> >>in the main cabin which were not ordinary economy or business class.
>> >>IOW nothing in between.
>> >WOLRD TRAVELLER _PLUS_ - you failed to do the research about the seats
>> >available to you, you cocked up, use a travel agent in future, or get
>> >better at searching yourself.
>>
>> You seem to have a comprehension problem Jim.
>>
>> 1. I repeat: I saw no seats on my BA flight which were not ordinary
>> World Traveller size or Business Class. I looked throughout the whole
>> cabin during our two our wait before take-off to see if there was an
>> alternative that I could move to.
>
>I thought you told us that you asked the FA and was told that the
>flight was 100% booked?

Correct. I walked the cabin *before* speaking to the FA.
If you read my various posts you will spot the sequence of actions.

Your point is?


>> Further, it was not extra legroom or
>> a better reclining seat that I wanted ...just the space I had bought
>> and paid for. Is that unreasonable?
>>
>> 2. I repeat: when I booked my flight I was not offered such a seat.
>
>To me this is the core of what Jim and I (others?) are trying to tell
>you.
>
>Expedia is *NOT* a travel agency. A travel agent would (or should)
>have told about other options. You chose a cheaper route and used an
>on-line booking service. If you are not familiar enough with all the
>intricacies of International travel then you're better off using a
>travel agent. Not having access to information about other classes of
>service is purely *your* fault. You chose economy travel booking
>assistance. You got what you paid for.

I disagree with your assessment.
If you study my various posts you will note that one of my main gripes
is that economy seats are simply not wide enough for many people
....they don't have to be obese as you said, just slightly wider than
small-to-medium.
This is no accident by the airlines but a deliberate policy to install
inadequate seats in planes to maximise revenue and to encourage
passengers to upgrade to much higher cost seats in business and first.


>> 3. I repeat: it is my personal view that economy seats are simply not
>> wide enough for people who are slightly larger than small-to-medium.
>
><snip>
>
>> Seat size is the root of the problem which airlines need to address.
>
>And you are correct in that. But as I told you and has been widely
>discussed, this is a decision made by the passengers. Airlines have
>tried slightly wider seats in Coach with slightly more legroom and a
>slightly higher price to cover that. Passengers voted with their
>wallets not to have that.

I'm not aware of that and I was told some while ago that Eva offer
wider seats and they are always snapped up.


>> Why you think a travel agent would do better than me is a mystery.
>
>I think the answer is obvious given your complaints and that fact that
>some of them could have been avoided had you used a travel agency.

I doubt it very much.
My experience with travel agents over the years is not good.
From: Jim Ley on
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:32:21 +0000, hummingbird
<RHBIYDTNPPAX(a)spammotel.com> wrote:

>The Expedia website 'offers' a set of classes when booking flights.
>FYI it appears in a drop down window.
>The only options 'offered' to me were economy, business and first.
>
>Got it yet?

EXPEDIA is not a travel agent, USE a travel agent or a better website,
and then you might be able to find stuff...

Jim.
From: redmonds on
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:32:21 +0000, hummingbird
<RHBIYDTNPPAX(a)spammotel.com> wrote:

snip
>
>The Expedia website 'offers' a set of classes when booking flights.
>FYI it appears in a drop down window.
>The only options 'offered' to me were economy, business and first.
>
>Got it yet?

It is true that some of the discount web sites do not bring up
"premier economy" as a choice.
>

snip
>
>>>Why you think a travel agent would do better than me is a mystery.
>>
>>Because you were too incompetent to find the seats available on a
>>flight, and are under the mistaken belief that there were only one
>>provider with economy plus serving asia.
>
Booking on the BA web site does bring up the option of "premier
economy" which presents flights with World Traveller Plus. Curiously
when I tried it for some hypothetical dates bookings from BKK to LHR
show only Qantas outbound wiht no WT+ and BA back with WT+. Looking
at LHR-BKK-LHR has BA0009/BA0010 with WT+ both ways.

It is indeed a lesson on learning the services available and not
taking what one particular online broker "offers."

Also note according to SeatGuru the BA 744 WT+ seat has 7" more pitch
and 1" (for what it is worth) more width than WT.

Is it possible that you were actually boarded on a Quantas 747 with
only one economy service?
From: nada on
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:16:00 +0000 in rec.travel.air, hummingbird
<RHBIYDTNPPAX(a)spammotel.com> wrote:

> Yes, obese people are a fact of life but it is the responsibility of
> the airlines to deal with that issue.

No it's the responsibility of the fat pigs to lose weight. I
agree there should be standards that don't allow obese people to
fly, because they are a danger to all the other pax. Some of
these 3-seat porkers couldn't make it out the exit door, and they
shouldn't allow them on the plane in the first place.