From: *muz* on

"Charles" <fort(a)> wrote in message
: In article <fk3go5d2s89nu5t10h75c34ocgrbng7rr8(a)>, Ray Goldenberg
: <ray(a)> wrote:
: > Some, but fortunately not most, on this news group want to be
: > nattering nabobs of negativity. Fortunately the real world of
: > cruising does not agree. As an example, Oceania Cruises floated out
: > its first newbuild, Marina, at Fincantieri's Sestri Ponente shipyard
: > this morning then surprised attendees by also cutting steel for a
: > second ship. The newbuild, Riviera, is planned for April 2012
: > delivery. This is a very exciting time for all of us that believe in
: > the cruise industry.
: Of course you believe in the cruise industry. That is your job! I don't
: blame you for being an optimist, but naturally your perspective and
: interests is different than that of cruise consumers.
: I wish all was roses, employment was going up and people could pay
: their mortgages. It is not a matter of being negative. Real statistics
: show that the economy is still a mess. I hope things are turning around
: and that the middle class can take cruises and pay higher fares. But
: the economic figures don't show it. At least not yet.
: As far as Carnival raising prices. That does not prove anything. First
: we will have to see if the increases hold. Second even if the increase
: holds all that might represent is that prices went down too far. If as
: George say it is a 5% increase then I would not be so quick to
: celebrate. That would be a small adjustment.
: The Oceania ships were ordered long ago. These are small ships for a
: niche cruise line. That is exciting for that niche and the small group
: of consumers who book on small upscale cruise lines. Oceania is a small
: player in the cruise industry.
: --
: Charles

Well stated, Charles. My husband has been employed in the state government
sector of unemployment compensation for 30 years. It has been an absolute
madhouse at work since Fall 2009, when earnings quarters changed. There had
been an initiative by Mr Obama to extend benefit weeks with, yet, another
program. Currently, there are up to 81 weeks of unemployment in PA,
dependent upon eligibility in programs which are in place for specific
claimants. I am not saying each claimant has the opportunity to extend
their UC weeks to 81 weeks. I'm saying, depending upon the nature, the
field of industry that tanked, there are programs that can pay ~as much as~
up to 81 weeks unemployment.

81 weeks! ...that is a year and a half of UC benefits. Building trades,
farming, transportation, many manufacturing industries, all big businesses,
faltered or completely closed their doors. It feels like the storyline of
"The Grapes of Wrath" is being lived out in all points America. However,
this time, there is no booming economy in any US geographical area.
Hunkering down and bearing with it is the norm.

In recent years, when considering a cruise vacation, it has been
bittersweet. The question, "How can you afford to take a vacation?" escapes
their lips. We cruise on the cheap. To us, "the real world of cruising" is
the more dominant cruise lines. For some, flaunting a vacation while un-
and under-employed friends struggle to keep their jobs to pay their mortgage
seems inconsiderate. What could be a time to share great memories becomes
muted. We go away, we come back, refreshed. My husband and I have both
experienced times of unemployment in our careers. We are fortunate to
travel today. We understand that.

Oceania and other niche lines are on our "dream list". For those who can
market and to those who may afford higher-end cruise lines, more power to
ya. I don't feel we have any less an enjoyable time on a different line.
So, for travel agents who are doing well promoting these markets, I give ya
props. If the price point was set too low to keep the cabins filled, the
current economy may delay an actual recovery. Western economies are in the
tank, Eastern markets are faring better. The lines are moving ships to
markets that are doing better than us.

My own employment status had changed since becoming physically unable to
perform my old job (nursing). At present, I am unemployed until I get
medical clearance for a job. I try to counterbalance this quandary by
volunteering in church projects for the needy and at the local food bank.
Sometimes, I feel the "job" I do simply isn't enough.

From: Borked Psuedo Mailed on
*muz* wrote:
> So, for travel agents who are doing well promoting these markets, I give ya
> props.

Do you honestly think the 2 travel agents who have been touting the
cruise industry in an upswing would tell you if they are doing badly?

We won't know that Ray or George have gone under until well after the
event happens, if ever. But for either to be suggesting that they're
doing better than they ever did before in the face of current market,
employment and housing conditions flies in the face of reality.

It would be the same as having a real estate agent tell you they are
doing fabulously. Or a head hunter.
From: Charles on
In article
Warren <oceanvoyager_nyc(a)> wrote:

> I didn't comment on the health of the industry. I commented on what
> you said about Oceania being a small player. I disagree. I reminded
> you that Oceania is part of a larger company and noticed that you
> completely ignored that the parent company now also owns half of NCL
> (which has finally become profitable).

I ignored it because it was not relevant. We are talking about Oceania,
not a parent company that is managing the investments of a group of
investors. That they are under some larger umbrella not make them a
major player. Likewise Azamara Club does not become a major player just
because it is owned by Royal Caribbean International. These are small
brands that serve a niche market. That does not mean Oceania is not a
great product. It appears to serve it's niche quite well, it gets great
reviews, so adding a couple of ships hopefully will work out well for
them. But adding those particular berths is not a general indicator of
the health of the cruise industry or it's pricing structure.

From: Ray Goldenberg on
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:40:34 -0500, Charles
<fort(a)> wrote:

>But adding those particular berths is not a general indicator of
>the health of the cruise industry or it's pricing structure.

Hi Charles,

I agree with you that taken by itself, you should not extrapolate the
health of the cruise industry by Oceania. In this thread and the
other threads on this subject, other cruise lines were mentioned as
raising fares due to the strong bookings we have had so far this year.
Carnival is the largest brand. Carnival is the brand that said
bookings were strong. Carnival is the brand that said they were
raising rates across the board. The Carnival Corporation is the
company that made $1.8 Billion last year. This compares to $2.3
Billion they made the year before. The company has said this year's
bookings are better than last year. Will the strong bookings keep up
when the rates go up. I do not know but those at the cruise lines
must think the net results will be positive or they would not raise
the rates. I guess time will tell.
Ray Goldenberg 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
Lighthouse Travel
Follow us on Twitter
Follow us on Facebook
From: Surfer E2468 on
We also got an e-mail from princess for a 7 day cruise for $329.00 plus
taxes,but the air fare is way up,since the cruise goes from san juan.
what you save on the cruise is eaten up by the air,and airlines are not
very reliable now

cruise lover(~~~~~)