Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
in [Airline Travel]
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From: Hatunen on 21 Jun 2010 01:39 On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:26:24 -0700 (PDT), "atlieb(a)gmail.com" <atlieb(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Jun 20, 7:30�pm, Hatunen <hatu...(a)cox.net> wrote: > >> See the reasons I cited above. Among other things, an average >> passenger sitting in the left or right seat would probably go >> into shock at the mere sight of an airline instrument panel. Some >> one with a commercial license, would immediately look for the >> instruments familiar to him or her. > >Not sure if you realize MX is a MSFS simmer, has never flown a real >plane, not a CGI, and no real world experience inside a real plane. >He just misrepresents himself as a pilot. I'm quite familiar with Mixie. From time to time I get fed up and killfile him, but it's usually set to expred after thirty days of no kills, and he seems to have gone away for that long this time. >He doesn't understand the real world as you describe above. Your last >sentence is the key. Somebody with piloting experience would know >what the altimeter would look like in the myriad of instruments >presented in front of him or a DG for directional awareness. A non >pilot may not be so quick to identify it. Put in glass cockpit in the >mix, and you would have me lost trying to interpret the information >being presented. I simply can't imagine a non pilot trying to figure >it out especially with altitude and such. While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel (although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time: keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall just as the wheels tough the runway. Of course, that last part takes some real practice (I failed my first flight test on the emergency landing). I don't know if modern airliners can, as they say, land themselves, or at least if they all can. I m pretty sure that if the plane is set up to land itself it has to be at a runway set up for it. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Mxsmanic on 21 Jun 2010 05:08 Hatunen writes: > The lady in question has a commercial license, which implies more > experience than noodling around in a 152. You can fly any sort of aircraft as a commercial pilot, and in particular, a CPL does not necessarily imply any experience at all in large jet transport aircraft. If you want to barnstorm across the country in a 152, for example, you need a CPL. > At a minimum the lady would know pulling back on the yoke raises > the nose and and pushing forward makes for nose down. She would also > know that turning the yoke will not make the plane turn unless the pedals > are also used. Presumably, but since she will absolutely not be touching these flight controls, this knowledge is useless. > And, of course, she will know most of the lingo > and will know where to look when told to watch the air speed or > the artificial horizon. There isn't a lot of lingo to know, but she might find it easier to locate the attitude indicator on the PFD without it being described to her, and she might find the airspeed without it being explained, although that depends largely on her ingenuity--small aircraft twenty years ago did not have PFDs. > She will presumably know the difference > between mag north and true north and will have a pretty good idea > of which direction runway 120 points. She would know the purpose > of the flaps, the VOR, and so on. She will know how to read an > air chart. All she is going to do is turn a few knobs or move a few levers, which anyone can do, with or without a pilot's license. > Nonsense. While teh cockpit of a 747 is pretty complex, it still > contains the basic instruments of a twin-engine Beech. Actually, apart from the compass, standby AI, and altimeter, there's almost nothing in common. The cockpit does have a yoke, rudder pedals, and a couple of throttles, but she needs to stay away from those. > I don't recall anyone here saying they could. This isn't the only place where I discuss aviation. Anyway, the same pilots who believe that a non-pilot would instantly crash any aircraft also tend to believe that they can fly anything, even if they've never been in any aircraft with more than two seats and a propeller. > Well, duh. That's not the question at hand. Well, yes, it is. You can only stretch knowledge of one aircraft so far, then you need to explicitly study other aircraft. Knowing how to drive a Ford Escort does not teach you how to drive a tractor-trailer rig, even if they are both road vehicles. > You've heard many people claim this? Who? And especially, who > here in this thread? As usual you're making up straw men. As I've said, I discuss aviation in all sorts of venues, not just on USENET. > But this is a case where it would be especially helpful if the > person taking over the controls had, say, a commercial license, > for the reasons I cited above. I've explained why those reasons would be mostly inapplicable. > Among other things, an average passenger sitting in the left or right > seat would probably go into shock at the mere sight of an airline > instrument panel. Not so. In real-world emergency situations, people tend to be a lot calmer than they are in Hollywood movies or in imagination. There are some who panic, but many who don't. Natural selection doesn't favor people who panic easily. > Some one with a commercial license, would immediately look for the > instruments familiar to him or her. And would become just as alarmed as the non-pilot upon realizing that virtually nothing looks familiar.
From: Mxsmanic on 21 Jun 2010 05:24 Hatunen writes: > While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel > (although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty > compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are > basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time: > keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to > near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall > just as the wheels tough the runway. In an emergency, a person who isn't a pilot certified for the aircraft in question needs to use the automation, not take the controls manually. The latter can easily lead to disaster. The problem is that you need actual practice in an airplane in order to become good at handling the controls, or you need to find an expensive, full-motion simulator for the same purpose. Having experience in a vastly different airplane won't help you much. In contrast, anyone can fly with automation, as long as he has instructions from someone qualified. And cruise flight and landing are or can be automated in large jet airliners. So the logical thing to do with an underqualified person in the cockpit is to stick to the automation to fly and land the aircraft. Anyone can turn knobs and move levers, but most people require a certain amount of practice before they can competently drive a moving vehicle. If aircraft are similar enough, of course, this doesn't apply. One can fly one type of Cessna single-engine prop with only experience in other models, and not make too many mistakes (although retractable gear and pitch adjustments can complicate things). But these small aircraft and large airliners are not similar. > Of course, that last part takes some real practice (I failed my > first flight test on the emergency landing). I don't know if > modern airliners can, as they say, land themselves, or at least > if they all can. I m pretty sure that if the plane is set up to > land itself it has to be at a runway set up for it. Large airliners certified for autoland (which means most airliners) can land themselves if set up to do so, at airports with the proper equipment (which means an ILS certified for the purpose, although in a pinch almost any ILS might suffice). Autolands are not the rule, but in a situation like the one under discussion, where the airplane might be flown by a non-pilot or a pilot who doesn't have experience in type, an autoland would be the safest option, as it requires nothing more than the aforementioned pushing of buttons, turning of knobs, and movement of levers. No manual flying skill is required, and manual flying skill is the one thing that you cannot provide to an inexperienced person in the heat of an emergency.
From: Mxsmanic on 21 Jun 2010 05:26 Hatunen writes: > Cessna makes or made (I don't recall the current structure of the > personal aircraft inudstry) some heavier aircraft than the 150s I > used to fly. Including some Jets (the Citation line). Yes. I fly a Citation X on my trusty sim all the time. But flying jets is expensive, and one need not do so for a CPL. Indeed, it might well be the other way around: CPL, then jets.
From: atlieb on 21 Jun 2010 08:11
On Jun 21, 4:24 am, Mxsmanic <mxsma...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Large airliners certified for autoland (which means most airliners) can land > themselves if set up to do so, at airports with the proper equipment (which > means an ILS certified for the purpose, although in a pinch almost any ILS > might suffice). Autolands are not the rule, but in a situation like the one > under discussion, where the airplane might be flown by a non-pilot or a pilot > who doesn't have experience in type, an autoland would be the safest option, > as it requires nothing more than the aforementioned pushing of buttons, > turning of knobs, Yeah right, find the right combination of buttons AND push the button to talk to a person who may or may not be there to help you push the right buttons AND fly the plane until you get such combination of instructions into the MFD to set up for autoland. I BET YOU CAN'T. Oh wait, your vision is restricted to a 19 inch monitor, so yeah IN YOUR MSFS simulator, you have a better chance since you don't have a fear factor of losing your life. |