Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
in [Europe]
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From: Padraig Breathnach on 11 Aug 2006 07:59 jim(a)jibbering.com (Jim Ley) wrote: >No home, 1 car, 5 or more maybe computers, 2 phones, 1 digital TV >service - should help the average if it's on households, the lack of >the home might hurt if that's taken into account... > Whatever about finding a home for yourself, surely you can find somebody to give a home to your digital TV service. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
From: The Reid on 11 Aug 2006 10:00 Following up to Jim Ley >No home, 1 car, 5 or more maybe computers, 2 phones, 1 digital TV >service - should help the average if it's on households, the lack of >the home might hurt if that's taken into account... i reckon i'm more Mr Ordinary than you. -- Mike Reid I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
From: barney2 on 11 Aug 2006 10:13 In article <1c1nd2d73uh103ir0buuj7o0nk9r3mpiuc(a)4ax.com>, mxsmanic(a)gmail.com (Mxsmanic) wrote: > *From:* Mxsmanic <mxsmanic(a)gmail.com> > *Date:* Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:14:44 +0200 > > Jordi writes: > > > The average European family has a home, car, computer, mobile phone, > > cable-TV and whatever else the American family has, and has more time > > to enjoy it together. We have between us three homes, one car, maybe half a dozen computers, two mobile phones, and non-cable digital TV. We are comfortably off, but not hugely high earners.
From: Jordi on 11 Aug 2006 10:13 Tchiowa wrote: > Jordi wrote: > > > > So is Australia and I recall them having one of the highest % of > > passport holders. > > Excuse me? Australia is a physically large country but 90% of it is > desert or close to it. Hardly "great diversity". It's still a continent on her own and has everything from jungle to desert and everything in between, Tasmania is even said to have a climate very similar to that of England. It has large cities, small rural towns and aboriginal communities. The only geographical feature an Australian may want to seek abroad are higher mountains. J.
From: Jordi on 11 Aug 2006 10:51
Tchiowa wrote: > Jordi wrote: > > Tchiowa wrote: > > > > That's a gross oversimplification. Every economy (even the US) is a mix > > of free market and government intervention, is the US also distorting > > the market? > > Do you understand the difference between "intervention" and "control"? > The difference between setting boundaries that can't be crossed and > defining the detail of individual transactions? In this context, it's a matter of grade and word choice. > > > I'm somewhat surprised that you fell into that somewhat simplistic > > > trap. The primary reason that more Europeans have passports that > > > Americans is the Balkanization of Europe. In parts of Europe you need a > > > passport in order to travel more than about an hour in any direct. > > > Americans can travel the length and breadth of North America without a > > > passport (inicluding Canada and Mexico). The fact that Europe fought > > > itself into tiny little legal entities that required people to have > > > passports to cross the street in some cases isn't something the Euros > > > should be bragging about. > > > > Schengen has pretty much changed that for a great deal of Europeans. > > Yup. In part. But they still have their passports. But my statement > still stands. Europeans travel "abroad" more than Americans because > damn near everything in Europe is "abroad" for Europeans? Brussels to > Amsterdam is a foreign trip. New York to LA isn't. Which is the greater > travel? In terms of distance, it is, in cultural terms a trip from Athens to Berlin is a greater 'distance'. The boundaries are there for a reason. > > > > So is Japan, and nobody suggests Japanese don't have money to spend > > > > while on holiday. > > > > > > As compared to Americans? I'm suggesting it. > > > > If everything you care about is pure income, there you have it. Keep it > > while you can. > > I didn't say that. But we were discussing spending money on vacation. > You seem to be surrendering. No, we're talking two completely different things. All this came after you said more or less 'what's the use of holidays if people don't have money to spend', Europeans do have enough money to keep a... say 'western' lifestyle without having to work 51 weeks a year, that's all. > > You are talking two different things. An European transplanted into > > America with his European salary would be lower or lower-middle class, > > but things down here are different. > > > > The average European family has a home, car, computer, mobile phone, > > cable-TV and whatever else the American family has, and has more time > > to enjoy it together. > > The average American has slightly more than one home (a high percentage > of Americans have 2 homes including a vacation house or condo), more > than 2 cars, 2-3 computers, who knows how many mobile phones, and more > and better TVs. Which is also true for here, check other replies. > > And we have just about as much time to enjoy it together. > I don't think so if people have to wait until they're 50 to get 4 weeks vacation. > > If you are trying to say a significant number of Europeans don't have > > money enough to go on vacation you're wrong. > > A higher percentage of Europeans than Americans can't afford vacation. > > A higher percentage of Europeans than Americans who *can* afford > vacation can't afford a real good vacation because of "limited funds". > > The average American does more vacation travel, goes more places, has > more money to spend, does more things while on vacation than the > average European. You mean like the 'See 8 European capitals in 7 days?' tours. They're quite successful with Japanese, Americans and other people who don't have time for a real holiday. > > > > > > No, same subject. The vacation policy is hurting the workers. > > > > So you say. > > Me and the official unemployment statistics. Oversimplificating again. Unemployment has very deep roots. > > > > > > No, you said that. I said that "rewards" are a great way. That includes > > > salary *and* vacation. > > > > Then why follow that Euro businesses are not rewarding efforts because > > they don't give more holiday? (btw: some do). > > And less salary. Can you follow a discussion for more than just the earlier reply? > > > ???? Euros get *less* pay. > > > > Again losing track. We are talking about rewarding efforts of current > > employees by increasing their pay, how can you come out with that? > > Europeans get less pay than Americans on the average. If Euros get a > raise and Americans get a raise the Americans stay ahead. What I wrote before applies here. > > > > > It's simple: excessive work causes stress but there is no way to > > > > calculate how much is excessive as it depends on every individual and > > > > work position. > > > > > > Define "excessive". That was the question. > > > > Excessive is easy to define the point is how much is excessive. > > OK. I'm waiting for the definition and the point. "there is no way to calculate how much is excessive as it depends on every individual and work position." > > Not really, a century ago most jobs were totally manual and any worker > > complaining about excessive workload would be summarily fired and with > > no other option but starving or turning to crime. > > But was he "stressed". The shrinks say "no". What I meant is saying that there is more stress now than in 1900 is very much the same as saying there are more airplanes now than in 1900. > > Which ones? > > Most. Read the studies. Vacations are times of high family violence due > to stress. Do you have any cite or this is 'personal experience' again? > > > Yet you seem to claim that there is a way. You do so by claiming that > > > the US is somehow harming its workers by not giving them enough > > > vacation. > > > > Yes, if people are better with more vacation, the less holidays they > > receive the worse they are. > > Nonsensical argument. If people had 365 days vacation a year but zero > income because of it then they are not better because they have more > vacation. A lot of countries prove they can go for 4-week vacation and still have money enough for a modern lifestyle. There must be a sweet point somewhere, but 4 weeks is nearer to it than 2. > > No, especially in France, the problems in hi |