From: mrtravel on
JohnT wrote:

> "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ht9pd2959okb32ouvg1o6jsjhjtgahflp7(a)4ax.com...
>
>>Hatunen writes:
>>
>>
>>>In civil matters "proof" is not a criterion.
>>
>>In all matters depriving persons of property or liberty, due process
>>is a necessary prerequisite, according to the Constitution.
>
>
> The FRENCH Constitution?

Weren't we discussing US states that permit confiscation of property
used or gained from criminal activity?
From: Mxsmanic on
JohnT writes:

> The FRENCH Constitution?

The American Constitution.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
From: Sarah Banick on

"Hatunen" <hatunen(a)cox.net> wrote in message
news:mq9pd25t3576ptisul4t2r2kruorkl5l5b(a)4ax.com...
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:34:59 -0400, "Sarah Banick"
> <sbanick(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1155257645.367072.245410(a)m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> The Reid wrote:
>>>> Following up to Hatunen
>>>>
>>>> >>So? What % of the annual budget of the average person goes to travel?
>>>> >>And Europeans do travel abroad more than Americans (just take a look
>>>> >>at
>>>> >>how many Americans have a passport).
>>>> >
>>>> >Europeans don't have as far to go to get abroad.
>>>>
>>>> that of course doesn't make it untrue.
>>>
>>> But it makes the original statement irrelevant.
>>>
>>>> >A great many of
>>>> >the foreign destinations for Americans don't require a passport
>>>> >(so far, anyway).
>>>>
>>>> what would be your guess on % of Americans who travel abroad and
>>>> who travel abroad beyond Mexico and Canada (a guess, I'm not
>>>> interested in a cites war). Are there a lot of countries US
>>>> doesn't need passports?
>>>
>>> Your question is nonsensical. The fact that Europe is Balkanized means
>>> that a trip in Europe that is "abroad" and requires a passport would be
>>> a domestic trip in the US.
>>>
>>> Instead try asking how many people in the US travel away from home and
>>> how far the typical trip is and compare with Europe. You'll find that
>>> Americans travel more.
>>
>>Do you have actual numbers on this? I am really curious to see if that is
>>true. There are many Americans who have never been out of their state or
>>region, especially those at the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder.
>
> I suspect the same claims can be made for Europeans of a lower
> socioeconomic status.
>
> In the USA even those of lower socioeconomic status sometimes go
> to visit relatives several states away.
>
>>Their typical trip is to the nearest beach or amusement park.
>
> That's true for almost everyone in the USA. Why wouldn't one go
> to nearny attrqctions?
>
>>I still agree with the others. An American driving from say, Virginia to
>>California, may cover a lot of territory, but he's still in the same
>>culture
>>(all California jokes aside), he's still watching the same television
>>programs, speaking the same language, and not using a passport or being
>>exposed to the many quirks (for lack of a better word) of international
>>travel.
>
> True, but I think that's a different question.

No, its the question I was responding to. No matter what socioeconomic class
you are, an Englishman can get across the Channel to France much quicker
(and probably cheaper) than I can get to the nearest beach.


From: JohnT on

"Sarah Banick" <sbanick(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:uIKdndMvdaOwLUHZnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d(a)comcast.com...
>
> "Hatunen" <hatunen(a)cox.net> wrote in message
> news:mq9pd25t3576ptisul4t2r2kruorkl5l5b(a)4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:34:59 -0400, "Sarah Banick"
>> <sbanick(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1155257645.367072.245410(a)m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> The Reid wrote:
>>>>> Following up to Hatunen
>>>>>
>>>>> >>So? What % of the annual budget of the average person goes to
>>>>> >>travel?
>>>>> >>And Europeans do travel abroad more than Americans (just take a look
>>>>> >>at
>>>>> >>how many Americans have a passport).
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Europeans don't have as far to go to get abroad.
>>>>>
>>>>> that of course doesn't make it untrue.
>>>>
>>>> But it makes the original statement irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>>> >A great many of
>>>>> >the foreign destinations for Americans don't require a passport
>>>>> >(so far, anyway).
>>>>>
>>>>> what would be your guess on % of Americans who travel abroad and
>>>>> who travel abroad beyond Mexico and Canada (a guess, I'm not
>>>>> interested in a cites war). Are there a lot of countries US
>>>>> doesn't need passports?
>>>>
>>>> Your question is nonsensical. The fact that Europe is Balkanized means
>>>> that a trip in Europe that is "abroad" and requires a passport would be
>>>> a domestic trip in the US.
>>>>
>>>> Instead try asking how many people in the US travel away from home and
>>>> how far the typical trip is and compare with Europe. You'll find that
>>>> Americans travel more.
>>>
>>>Do you have actual numbers on this? I am really curious to see if that is
>>>true. There are many Americans who have never been out of their state or
>>>region, especially those at the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder.
>>
>> I suspect the same claims can be made for Europeans of a lower
>> socioeconomic status.
>>
>> In the USA even those of lower socioeconomic status sometimes go
>> to visit relatives several states away.
>>
>>>Their typical trip is to the nearest beach or amusement park.
>>
>> That's true for almost everyone in the USA. Why wouldn't one go
>> to nearny attrqctions?
>>
>>>I still agree with the others. An American driving from say, Virginia to
>>>California, may cover a lot of territory, but he's still in the same
>>>culture
>>>(all California jokes aside), he's still watching the same television
>>>programs, speaking the same language, and not using a passport or being
>>>exposed to the many quirks (for lack of a better word) of international
>>>travel.
>>
>> True, but I think that's a different question.
>
> No, its the question I was responding to. No matter what socioeconomic
> class you are, an Englishman can get across the Channel to France much
> quicker (and probably cheaper) than I can get to the nearest beach.
I suppose it depends on where you live, but I am in North East England and
it is almost 400 miles from here to the Channel. And I can't fly to France
out of NCL today because all flights have been cancelled.

JohnT


From: Sarah Banick on


>>> True, but I think that's a different question.
>>
>> No, its the question I was responding to. No matter what socioeconomic
>> class you are, an Englishman can get across the Channel to France much
>> quicker (and probably cheaper) than I can get to the nearest beach.

> I suppose it depends on where you live, but I am in North East England and
> it is almost 400 miles from here to the Channel. And I can't fly to France
> out of NCL today because all flights have been cancelled.
>
> JohnT
>
Yeah, well, suppose I was in Montana -- more than 1000 from any ocean or the
Gulf...