From: Sarah Banick on

> Creole food and Philly Cheese Steaks are as common as Big Macs in the
> US? I don't think so.
> --
> ---
> DFM -
> ---
> --

Maybe not as common, but pretty common nowadays. There are now chain
restaurants and shops in many cities across the country. Here in Atlanta
there are numerous Creole/Cajun restaurants, and two Philly Cheesesteak
locations within a few miles of my house. Lots of communities have Mardi
Gras parties every year and offer their own take on Louisiana cuisine. Some
of it is pretty pathetic, mind you, but it's there :-)

From: Tchiowa on

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2006 17:10:14 -0700, "Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)> wrote:

> >After all *what*????? An editorial from a biased source quoting a
> >defense attorney????
> I am still waiting for you to demonstrate that bias.

Let me get this straight. You're waiting for me to document the fact
that the BBC has been caught deliberately falsifying evidence to try to
discredit Blair and Bush as to the conduct of the war?

> (and no, merely trying to broadly discredit the BBC doesn't count)

I don't need to try. They did that to themselves.

> >> you still conclude that all of them are guilty,
> >
> >Learn to read. I never said anyone was "guilty" of anything.
> You most certainly concluded that.

Out and out lie. Show me where I said that.

> >> and deserve no legal recourse. Not so much as a shadow of a doubt.
> >> None.
> >
> >Do you understand anything about war? Prisoners captured during a war
> >may *NOT* be subjected to criminal trials and may be held until the end
> >of the war without "any legal recourse".
> Right, this all comes down to the declaration of war on some phantom
> enemy. I forgot. Apparently you take no issue with this, but are just
> blinding trusting the US's word, no matter how flimsy it is.

That would be the phantoms that knocked down the Twin Towers and killed
3,000 people? The phantoms that bombed the Madrid subway? The phantoms
that bombed the UK transit system? The phantoms that were just stopped
from bombing 10 trans-Atlantic flights? *Those* phantoms?

If you don't think we're at war with Islamic Fascists then you need to
wake up. The fact is that the politicians refuse to label them as
Islamic so they just say "Terrorists". But that doesn't alter the fact
that we are in a shooting war.

> >> You've obviously made up your mind on this one, so there's not much
> >> point in trying to get any sense out of, or into you. That brain of
> >> yours is in lockdown denial mode.
> >
> >Pots and kettles. You clearly don't understand any of the issues but
> >you're not going to let that get in the way of your prejudices.
> My predjudice is getting these people on trial (IOW justice). Yours is
> to avoid seeing that happen.

On trial for *what*? Most aren't accused of breaking US law. They are
being held as prisoners of war. Nothing "guilty" about that. And no
trials to hold.

During WWII, did the UK put captured German soldiers on trial or did
they simply hold them until the end of the war then send them home?

From: Tchiowa on

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2006 17:16:06 -0700, "Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)> wrote:

> >The Euro's opinion of themselves?
> No. You're insistence on putting all "Euro's" together illustrates a
> flaw in your thinking.

You mean kind of like the way you (and others) have lumped Americans

> >Which part do you disagree with? The fact that Europe is chopped up
> >into little political units because of a millenium of bigotry and war?
> The use of the word 'bigotry' is just bizarre.

It wasn't bigotry that was at the root of many or most of the wars that
created the borders? Of course it was.

> >The fact the European economy is lagging far, far behind the US? The
> >fact that unemployment in most of Europe is roughly double what it is
> >in the US?
> >
> >Your denial or reality doesn't make these facts go away.
> My denial or reality? What the hell are you trying to say? Maybe you
> are on crack or yaa baa or something.

Ah, a typical juvenile response. Indicates you have no logical
argument. Thank you for the surrender.

>> >> >> That is meaningless, as you included "real", which could mean anything.
> >> >
> >> >No, Jordi included "real". I quoted him.
> >> >
> >> >Try to keep up.
> >>
> >> Getting a bit defensive are we? I never aimed that one at you.
> >
> >Then you should be careful where you embed your reply. You embedded it
> >following *my* statement, not anyone else's.
> And it wasn't an attack. You are jumping at shadows.

I never said it was an attack. Your tenuous grasp on reality is showing

From: Tchiowa on

Jordi wrote:
> Tchiowa wrote:
> > Jordi wrote:
> > > > If you are unable to understand the difference between government
> > > > control and regulation then you have a real problem with economics.
> > >
> > > You keep telling 4 weeks holiday is 'control'
> >
> > ??? No I didn't. I cited that as one example that is part of a bigger
> > problem. 4 weeks holiday is not "control". Government ordering that
> > companies provide benefits that aren't related to performance is one
> > example of control.
> Pulling back now? You kept telling a 4 week holiday was unsustainable
> and government interference until provided with a couple of examples.

You took 2 separate arguments and tried to piece the words together.
And you didn't do a very good job.

And which examples are you talking about? Australia? (You were wrong)
Sweden? (You were wrong) In fact you haven't come up with a single
example. Not one. Every nation you've mentioned that has a government
mandated minimum of 4 weeks vacation has a higher unemployment rate
than the US. The only one that is less is Norway and they are a tiny

> > In Europe it's part of a much, much bigger problem.
> >
> There is a problem with unemployment in Europe. It's not at all related
> to the vacation policy, as some countries (some of them in Europe) show.

Which ones? Again and again. You keep saying that then when you cite
countries they turn out to have significantly higher unemployment than
the US.

The mandatory 4 week vacation is not the sole cause. But it is
undeniably one of the causes.

> > Australia's unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in decades, yet
> > still 10% higher than the US rate (4.6% - 5.1%, a .5% difference which
> > is 10% of 4.6% - had to do the math for you so we don't have to
> > exchange 20 more postings to get you to understand).
> 5% is usually considered a full employment figure.

And Australia is slightly above that and the US is below that. And this
is the lowest it's been in Australia in decades. As compared with a
fairly typical US unemployment rate.

> >
> >
> > Sweden's rate is about 6%, even higher.
> Recovering from a 90s economic crisis, and published at 5,8%.

Substantially higher than the US which is also recovering from a 2001

> >
> >
> > OK. "Other Scandinavian countries"? OK.
> >
> > Finland (2004, the most recent I found without spending hours proving
> > you don't know what you're talking about): 8.9%.
> Finland is not a Scandinavian country, better brush up your geography.

It was in Scandinavia when I was there. Did they move it?

"Welcome to the Official Website of the Scandinavian Tourist Boards in
North America. Please feel free to browse the country websites of
Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden."

Geographically the Scandinavian peninsula includes mainland Sweden and
mainland Norway, and also a part of Finland

> > Norway (population 4 million, smaller than many American *cities*):
> > 4.4%. Roughly the same as the US as a whole.
> Nearly a 5% lower, following your math on Australia.

And again, smaller than some US cities. You can't take a tiny part of
the whole of Europe and make a valid comparison with the US. I can find
lots of small spots in the US with far, far lower unemployment.

So none of your examples stand.

> > And these are the *best examples* you can come up with. Again, as I
> > have pointed out before, you can try to chop pieces out of the whole to
> > try to prove something. But that is a distortion. I can cite parts of
> > the US where unemployment is around 3%. But, *TAKEN AS A WHOLE* the
> > unemployment rate in Europe is roughly double the rate in the US.
> But you don't seem to understand that Europe can't be taken as a whole,
> not even the EU.

Too bad about that. I wonder why. All those borders. Couldn't be
bigotry and hatred, could it?

You want to compare pieces of the EU with the whole of the US. Invalid
comparison. Of course that can be explained because when you compare
whole against whole or pieces against pieces you're proven completely

> > Further, your stats don't prove what you claim at all. Yes it's
> > possible to have high vacations and a competitive economy, but as I've
> > pointed out *repeatedly*, the vacation mandate is just *part* of the
> > problem.
> Please, it works in other countries, you can't blame unemployment on
> vacation after seeing the figures in those other countries.

????? What countries????? Norway? Is that it?????

> > But that wasn't the claim. The claim was cultural superiority (implied)
> > due to having a lot of passports and travelling between countries.
> >
> It was you who came with that term, you can think what you want. Let's
> go back to the Australians, they have an enormous diverse country just
> like the Americans and an extremely high % of passport ownership..
> don't you think their 5-week holiday may have something to do with
> them?

They have a geographically large country but a very large part of it is
not exactly called a vacation destination.

I lived in Australia for about a year. Australia has a much freer
economy than most European countries (very similar to the US). They are
doing just fine, but would do better if the economy was even more free.

But I guess I have to ask why you are hanging your hat on Australia.
You seemed very anxious to brag on Europe's success until you
discovered that European Success is an oxymoron.

> > But you seem to be claiming that you can't have quality without
> > quantity. To me "quality" defines a "real" vacation. To you, if it's
> > not 4 weeks in the first year of your employment it's not "real".
> Exactly.

Well then you need to examine your priorities.

> I now see why you said holidays can be stressful, if you are trying to
> pack an international trip on your sole 2-week holiday you will very
> likely be stressed as a result.

If you lived in Europe it would be easy. But, again (and again and
again and again) Americans can do 10 times as much travel as Europeans
without crossing an international border. So you're falling back into
that same tr
From: TOliver on

"Sarah Banick" <sbanick(a)> wrote ...
>> Creole food and Philly Cheese Steaks are as common as Big Macs in the
>> US? I don't think so.
>> --

>> --
> Maybe not as common, but pretty common nowadays. There are now chain
> restaurants and shops in many cities across the country. Here in Atlanta
> there are numerous Creole/Cajun restaurants, and two Philly Cheesesteak
> locations within a few miles of my house. Lots of communities have Mardi
> Gras parties every year and offer their own take on Louisiana cuisine.
> Some of it is pretty pathetic, mind you, but it's there :-)
Amusingly, I can think of several generations of USAians who have spent
considerably more time in Europe than "average" or even distinctly
non-average Europeans have spent in the US.

My father's father spent October, 1917 until late 1919 in Western Europe,
his tour extended because of some fluency in German).

While my father spent 1942-1945 unaccountably among the heathen Chinee', my
mother's brothers between them spent 1943-1947 "touring" Western Europe and
tending to post war matters in Germany. One of their sons capped off our
custodial care of the Krauts with a tour during the declining days of
post-Occupation hostages to fortune peering through binocs at the Bear.

From mid1962 until mid1965, I spent 14 months in the "Med" and another
three in "EastLant" visiting all sorts of European tourist traps. Add sis
or so pleasure trrips and one business trip since, and I've spent more time
in several European cities than in some USAian ones.

One brother in law claims more time in Eastern Turkey than in West Texas.

My first cousin, the retired USAF ladypilot, has flown in an out of all
sorts of European fields, but did operate out of Aviano for some period
during a couple of recent unpleasantnesses among the nearby Slavs and was
based in Germany during GWI, hauling the casualties back and forth.

Whilst we may not have done as mch business in Europe as some, all that
occupational occupying/protecting/preventing even more excessive internecine
butchery among Europeans ought to count for something (and certainly
provides a basis to claim that we 'Merkins have often individually spent far
more time in Europe than have Europeans spent wandering about the US).

One thing for sure, the number of headstones covering USAian graves in
Europe certainly exceeds the graves, marked and unmarked, of European
soldiery lost preserving, protecting or simply setting around as good
examples of freedom, liberty and democratic ideals in the US (which does
leave out the French who accompanied Max and Carlota to mexico).