From: John Rennie on
Donna Evleth wrote:
>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)"
>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)>
>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
>> those who come after us.
>> Newsgroups:,alt.activism.death-penalty
>> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:02:33 +0000
>> Subject: Re: Dutch McDo's 'wrong' to fire worker over cheese slice...
>> Michael wrote:
>>> Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously) wrote:
>>>> Unions are monopolies. I would replace the term "bargain" with
>>>> "extortion".
>>> In Europe, most large companies' employees are represented by several
>>> unions, which means they are not monopolies.
>> Wait a minute. So you are saying that the workers in the same
>> category have different unions?
> That's exactly what he is saying. Here in France, to give just one example,
> prison guards have three different unions, Ufap (specific to prison
> employees), FO (conservative), CGT (left wing). Not all prison guards
> belong to the same union.
> Donna Evleth
Reminds be of the supervision of the British Zone in Germany
which frankly was excellent and I'm continually amazed about
how little is made of it here. Anyway one of the important
areas was the establishment of free trade unions. Senior
trade unionists from England were recruited to help form or
guide and advise completely new unions. There were one or
two laughs from the Tory press in England when this was
known. Demarcation disputes were the order of the day in
the England of the 40s and 50s. What union was responsible
that piece of work when another worker from a separate
union said it was his - incredible. However, the laughs
were unjustified. It was this demarcation furore that
the British trade unionists were determined to avoid
transplanting to Germany. So you had one union for all
the auto workers, one union for all building employees
etc. Seems obvious now but it was new then and my word
didn't help give Germany the boost it needed.

The British did other good things too. For instance
a British army major set up Der Spiegel - remember
Germany hadn't had a free press for some time.

From: Mxsmanic on
Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously) writes:

> The right doesn't include a mandate that this employer provide you
> with that job.

I've already explained the inequality of the situation.

In fact, it is precisely this inequality that gave rise to labor unions. When
an employer can lose all of its workforce simultaneously (through a strike),
that puts it on an even footing with an employee who can lose all of his
income at once. Negotiations thus become much easier.
From: Gregory Morrow on
Earl Evleth wrote:

> On 29/01/10 23:09, in article 4B635C81.B7E999BA(a), "Bill
> Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)"
> <tribuyltinafpant(a)> wrote:
>> So we can look for the French to pack on the pounds?
> If you visit a French McDonalds you'll note that those
> there are all French, largely young and beefier than
> those on the street. The obesity rate in France is rising,
> although still less than half the US rate (which is over 30%).
> Judging from short visits to the UK, my feeling is that they
> are beefier than the French.
> Stats demonstrate this, and in fact the US is a leader nation
> with 30.6% with the UK trailing at 23%. France is listed
> at 9.4% near the bottom of the list at this site
> I seem to remember, however that the French rate is higher
> than than and growing.
> I watch a low of WWII films about the war period. I noted
> here several times that films of the war workers in
> American factories showed no overweight problem, people
> had average body sizes. In contrast with the UK people had
> not food problem in the US. Likewise, films of Gis marching
> along showed no beefy GIs.

Yep, that's something I notice,'ll see draftees lined up for
induction and these boys are *skinny*...

And there were still the lingering after - effects of the Depression and
it's malnutrition. IIRC initially quite a large percentage of draftees were
rejected on physical grounds, they were underweight and these guys suffered
the usual effects of nutritional deprivement, e.g. rickets, poor eyesight,

I have some old WWII recruiting booklets and pamphlets, the supplying of
"three square meals per day" is *really* emphasized. For a lot of the
poorer people entering the armed forces it would probably be the first time
intheir lives tht they routinely ate three times per day...

And at that time obesity was still considered a hallmark of the wealthy,
look at old _New Yorker_ or political cartoons or films or illustrations
that lampoon the wealthy, they are all "fat cats" in tails and top hats...

Now the capitalist fat cats are skinny, you don't see many wealthy people
who are fat, and obesity is endemic in the poorer classes, primarily a
result of poor but starchy diets.


From: Gregory Morrow on
John Rennie wrote:

> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>> John Rennie wrote:
>>> Earl Evleth wrote:
>>>> On 28/01/10 21:11, in article hjsr1k0uv9(a),
>>>> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgmsop(a)> wrote:
>>>>> She was a bit startled when I pointed out that
>>>>> she would not be able to use her electric typewriter, either.
>>>>> (She worked at home, typing scripts for free-lance
>>>>> screen-writers!)
>>>> Reminds me, we still have ours. An IBM selectric, which had a
>>>> correcting tape, a big thing at the time. It is down stairs in the
>>>> cave.
>>>> We had it with a French key board since generally the French
>>>> keyboard is a
>>>> bit more universal than the American. The only problem is that
>>>> several of
>>>> the letters are in different location, but when typing I can
>>>> switch over from the English to the French sequence in a minute or
>>>> so. I only
>>>> type using
>>>> the French sequence. Occasionally the Mac switches over without my
>>>> noticing
>>>> until I hit the "m" or "a", or whatever.
>>> Blah, blah, blah. You did your best to miss the point, Earl.
>>> The lady possessed an IQ of 160 (snipped by you) and yet was
>>> quite dumb.
>> Actually, he didn't "miss the point" as much as you generally seem
>> to do in your various posts! (If you don't like the way posts here
>> go off on tangents, perhaps you should confine your postings to
>> "moderated" newsgroups.)
> Now get this, Evelyn. Earl and I are 10th cousins and I
> post whatever I like about him.

Didja know that Obama and GOP Senator - elect Scott Brown are 10th cousins
on their mothers' sides...they have a common female ancestor from the mid -
18th century. This was in the nooze yesterday or so...


From: Earl Evleth on
On 30/01/10 14:57, in article 7je8m59c66dbigrlcr0dp427pj0k23tbg4(a),
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic(a)> wrote:

> In fact, it is precisely this inequality that gave rise to labor unions.

Inequalities are not limited to a single employee facing the immense power
of a company. Protecting the individual from the abuses of the many
is an ongoing battle. But one wonders why anybody would be duped
as to not recognize this in the economic domain. And wish to
preferentially take the side of the powerful. It is simply
the battle for individual liberty in the face of the despots.