English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid'
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From: Donna Evleth on 15 Jan 2010 07:14 > From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > those who come after us. > Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:11:34 +0000 > Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' > > > > Donna Evleth wrote: >> >>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to >>> those who come after us. >>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:41:43 +0000 >>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' >>> >>> >>> >>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave >>>>> to >>>>> those who come after us. >>>>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:59:53 +0000 >>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>> leave >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:21:08 +0000 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:00:11 +0000 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colour me colourless)" >>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:02:05 +0000 >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more than >>>>>>>>>>> Nazisdid' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Didn't you contest the claim that English words were disfavoured by >>>>>>>>>>> officialdom in the French idioma? If official documents must be "in >>>>>>>>>>> French", doesn't that substantially prove the original assertion >>>>>>>>>>> about the insular nature of the French and their Sprache? Which is >>>>>>>>>>> odd compared to people nearby on an island with the most open major >>>>>>>>>>> language in the world. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There are people in the US who are screaming because election ballots >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> driver's license exams are in Spanish as well as English. The >>>>>>>>>> screamers >>>>>>>>>> want English only. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Because the language of the United States is English. You can speak >>>>>>>>> any languages you want, and there's nothing wrong with that, but >>>>>>>>> you should know the English. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Here is an excerpt from an article in the Seoul Times of January 12, >>>>>>>>>> 2010 >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> the subject: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Adding ballots in languages other than English might increase the >>>>>>>>>> cost >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> printing election materials from 15 to 40 percent. Adding bilingual >>>>>>>>>> poll >>>>>>>>>> workers adds to the expense. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is that even possible? Who knows what '2nd' language someone might >>>>>>>>> want? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cost is a definite concern, but some people have other strong >>>>>>>>>> reservations. >>>>>>>>>> Some object to the very idea of ballots in languages other than >>>>>>>>>> English. >>>>>>>>>> Some people fear that voting in Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese, or >>>>>>>>>> whatever >>>>>>>>>> second language the law might require, will result in the beginning >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> slippery rope which will Balkanize the country and lead it the same >>>>>>>>>> path >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> Canada into a possible break up. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is that the same fear that the French feel? I take what the French >>>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their >>>>>>>>> language. But you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of >>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French. I was told in >>>>>>>>> this very newsgroup to try to write in French because the poster >>>>>>>>> wanted a laugh. Apparently they couldn't find enough laughs in what >>>>>>>>> I write in English. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are telling me that I "don't have to go far to hear people make fun >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's what French speakers do whenever someone tries to speak >>>>>>> French. >>>>>> >>>>>> No, they don't. >>>>>> >>>>> I just visited upon you an example from this very newsgroup. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm the one who lives in France, not you, so I know more >>>>>> about it than you do, having a much better opportunity to judge. >>>>>> >>>>> But you speak fluent French. Good grief! I'm talking about going on >>>>> holiday and stammering out a request for bonbons. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> This is one of your more >>>>>>>> stupid remarks. The French love people who are not native francophones >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> make the effort to read and write in French. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh give me a break. >>>>>> >>>>>> No, you give me a break, from your tedious stereotyping. >>>>>> >>>>> Show me where the support is for people who wish to practice French >>>>> on the French. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> I am a living example. In >>>>>>>> December 2009 I had an article published in a prestigious French >>>>>>>> journal, >>>>>>>> Le >>>>>>>> Mouvement Social, in French. The reason I had an article published in >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> very prestigious journal is because those closely involved with the >>>>>>>> journal >>>>>>>> thought an article by me would be a good thing. One of the people who >>>>>>>> suggested this did not know me personally. He only knew my work, and >>>>>>>> respected it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> What does this have to do with what I was talking about? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill, Bill, you are the one who said above: "Is that the same fear that >>>>>> the >>>>>> French feel? I take what the French >>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their language. But >>>>>> you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of >>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French." Have you forgotten >>>>>> your >>>>>> very own words? I was demonstrating French reactions to my writing in >>>>>> French. >>>>>> >>>>> BUT YOU ARE FREAKIN FRENCH! >>>> >>>> Not by birth. But I have been a French citizen for over 20 years. But >>>> never freakin >>>> >>> My point was people who just try to speak French, not 2d language >>> speakers who are fluent "trying" to speak French. >> >> You did not previously make that nuance clear. >> > If your French is perfect, what's to worry about? But if someone > isn't perfect, they do get grief, isn't that correct? So if that is > correct, then consider how that makes fewer people interested in > trying to try out their French. Consider that everyone just expects > to deal with people who can't speak English very well, due to it > being their 2d language. > My French is not perfect, I have an accent because I was 30 years old when I learned the language, and at that age, you just don't lose the accent. Do I get grief? NO. In fact, I have had people tell me my accent is charming. You are not correct, Bill, so do try to get past the stereotype you have in your head. But then again, I'm not sure you can. You love it too much. Donna Evleth > > > -- > "Gonna take a sedimental journey", what Old Man River actually > said.
From: Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously) on 15 Jan 2010 11:27 Donna Evleth wrote: > > > From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > > <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > > those who come after us. > > Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:11:34 +0000 > > Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' > > > > > > > > Donna Evleth wrote: > >> > >>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > >>> those who come after us. > >>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:41:43 +0000 > >>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave > >>>>> to > >>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:59:53 +0000 > >>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more > >>>>> thanNazisdid' > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we > >>>>>>> leave > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>>>> Newsgroups: > >>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:21:08 +0000 > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more > >>>>>>> thanNazisdid' > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we > >>>>>>>>> leave > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: > >>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:00:11 +0000 > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more > >>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colour me colourless)" > >>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we > >>>>>>>>>>> leave > >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: > >>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:02:05 +0000 > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more than > >>>>>>>>>>> Nazisdid' > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Didn't you contest the claim that English words were disfavoured by > >>>>>>>>>>> officialdom in the French idioma? If official documents must be "in > >>>>>>>>>>> French", doesn't that substantially prove the original assertion > >>>>>>>>>>> about the insular nature of the French and their Sprache? Which is > >>>>>>>>>>> odd compared to people nearby on an island with the most open major > >>>>>>>>>>> language in the world. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> There are people in the US who are screaming because election ballots > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> driver's license exams are in Spanish as well as English. The > >>>>>>>>>> screamers > >>>>>>>>>> want English only. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Because the language of the United States is English. You can speak > >>>>>>>>> any languages you want, and there's nothing wrong with that, but > >>>>>>>>> you should know the English. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Here is an excerpt from an article in the Seoul Times of January 12, > >>>>>>>>>> 2010 > >>>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>> the subject: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Adding ballots in languages other than English might increase the > >>>>>>>>>> cost > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> printing election materials from 15 to 40 percent. Adding bilingual > >>>>>>>>>> poll > >>>>>>>>>> workers adds to the expense. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Is that even possible? Who knows what '2nd' language someone might > >>>>>>>>> want? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cost is a definite concern, but some people have other strong > >>>>>>>>>> reservations. > >>>>>>>>>> Some object to the very idea of ballots in languages other than > >>>>>>>>>> English. > >>>>>>>>>> Some people fear that voting in Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese, or > >>>>>>>>>> whatever > >>>>>>>>>> second language the law might require, will result in the beginning > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>> slippery rope which will Balkanize the country and lead it the same > >>>>>>>>>> path > >>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> Canada into a possible break up. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Is that the same fear that the French feel? I take what the French > >>>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their > >>>>>>>>> language. But you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of > >>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French. I was told in > >>>>>>>>> this very newsgroup to try to write in French because the poster > >>>>>>>>> wanted a laugh. Apparently they couldn't find enough laughs in what > >>>>>>>>> I write in English. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> You are telling me that I "don't have to go far to hear people make fun > >>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French". > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's what French speakers do whenever someone tries to speak > >>>>>>> French. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> No, they don't. > >>>>>> > >>>>> I just visited upon you an example from this very newsgroup. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I'm the one who lives in France, not you, so I know more > >>>>>> about it than you do, having a much better opportunity to judge. > >>>>>> > >>>>> But you speak fluent French. Good grief! I'm talking about going on > >>>>> holiday and stammering out a request for bonbons. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> This is one of your more > >>>>>>>> stupid remarks. The French love people who are not native francophones > >>>>>>>> who > >>>>>>>> make the effort to read and write in French. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Oh give me a break. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> No, you give me a break, from your tedious stereotyping. > >>>>>> > >>>>> Show me where the support is for people who wish to practice French > >>>>> on the French. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> I am a living example. In > >>>>>>>> December 2009 I had an article published in a prestigious French > >>>>>>>> journal, > >>>>>>>> Le > >>>>>>>> Mouvement Social, in French. The reason I had an article published in > >>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>> very prestigious journal is because those closely involved with the > >>>>>>>> journal > >>>>>>>> thought an article by me would be a good thing. One of the people who > >>>>>>>> suggested this did not know me personally. He only knew my work, and > >>>>>>>> respected it. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What does this have to do with what I was talking about? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Bill, Bill, you are the one who said above: "Is that the same fear that > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> French feel? I take what the French > >>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their language. But > >>>>>> you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of > >>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French." Have you forgotten > >>>>>> your > >>>>>> very own words? I was demonstrating French reactions to my writing in > >>>>>> French. > >>>>>> > >>>>> BUT YOU ARE FREAKIN FRENCH! > >>>> > >>>> Not by birth. But I have been a French citizen for over 20 years. But > >>>> never freakin > >>>> > >>> My point was people who just try to speak French, not 2d language > >>> speakers who are fluent "trying" to speak French. > >> > >> You did not previously make that nuance clear. > >> > > If your French is perfect, what's to worry about? But if someone > > isn't perfect, they do get grief, isn't that correct? So if that is > > correct, then consider how that makes fewer people interested in > > trying to try out their French. Consider that everyone just expects > > to deal with people who can't speak English very well, due to it > > being their 2d language. > > > My French is not perfect, I have an accent because I was 30 years old when I > learned the language, and at that age, you just don't lose the accent. Do I > get grief? NO. In fact, I have had people tell me my accent is charming. > You are not correct, Bill, so do try to get past the stereotype you have in > your head. But then again, I'm not sure you can. You love it too much. > I pointed to attacks on me if I were to write here in French as a perfect example. The fact that you are perfect enough to pass the Frenchy tests proves nothing in regards to others who aren't so great. -- "Gonna take a sedimental journey", what Old Man River actually said.
From: Donna Evleth on 15 Jan 2010 13:02 > From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > those who come after us. > Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:27:01 +0000 > Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' > > > > Donna Evleth wrote: >> >>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to >>> those who come after us. >>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:11:34 +0000 >>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' >>> >>> >>> >>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave >>>>> to >>>>> those who come after us. >>>>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:41:43 +0000 >>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>> leave >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:59:53 +0000 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:21:08 +0000 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:00:11 +0000 >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colour me colourless)" >>>>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:02:05 +0000 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more than >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nazisdid' >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Didn't you contest the claim that English words were disfavoured >>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>> officialdom in the French idioma? If official documents must be >>>>>>>>>>>>> "in >>>>>>>>>>>>> French", doesn't that substantially prove the original assertion >>>>>>>>>>>>> about the insular nature of the French and their Sprache? Which is >>>>>>>>>>>>> odd compared to people nearby on an island with the most open >>>>>>>>>>>>> major >>>>>>>>>>>>> language in the world. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There are people in the US who are screaming because election >>>>>>>>>>>> ballots >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> driver's license exams are in Spanish as well as English. The >>>>>>>>>>>> screamers >>>>>>>>>>>> want English only. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Because the language of the United States is English. You can speak >>>>>>>>>>> any languages you want, and there's nothing wrong with that, but >>>>>>>>>>> you should know the English. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Here is an excerpt from an article in the Seoul Times of January >>>>>>>>>>>> 12, >>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> the subject: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Adding ballots in languages other than English might increase the >>>>>>>>>>>> cost >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> printing election materials from 15 to 40 percent. Adding bilingual >>>>>>>>>>>> poll >>>>>>>>>>>> workers adds to the expense. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is that even possible? Who knows what '2nd' language someone might >>>>>>>>>>> want? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cost is a definite concern, but some people have other strong >>>>>>>>>>>> reservations. >>>>>>>>>>>> Some object to the very idea of ballots in languages other than >>>>>>>>>>>> English. >>>>>>>>>>>> Some people fear that voting in Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese, or >>>>>>>>>>>> whatever >>>>>>>>>>>> second language the law might require, will result in the beginning >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> slippery rope which will Balkanize the country and lead it the same >>>>>>>>>>>> path >>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>> Canada into a possible break up. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is that the same fear that the French feel? I take what the French >>>>>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their >>>>>>>>>>> language. But you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of >>>>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French. I was told in >>>>>>>>>>> this very newsgroup to try to write in French because the poster >>>>>>>>>>> wanted a laugh. Apparently they couldn't find enough laughs in what >>>>>>>>>>> I write in English. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are telling me that I "don't have to go far to hear people make >>>>>>>>>> fun >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's what French speakers do whenever someone tries to speak >>>>>>>>> French. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, they don't. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just visited upon you an example from this very newsgroup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm the one who lives in France, not you, so I know more >>>>>>>> about it than you do, having a much better opportunity to judge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> But you speak fluent French. Good grief! I'm talking about going on >>>>>>> holiday and stammering out a request for bonbons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is one of your more >>>>>>>>>> stupid remarks. The French love people who are not native >>>>>>>>>> francophones >>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> make the effort to read and write in French. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Oh give me a break. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, you give me a break, from your tedious stereotyping. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Show me where the support is for people who wish to practice French >>>>>>> on the French. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am a living example. In >>>>>>>>>> December 2009 I had an article published in a prestigious French >>>>>>>>>> journal, >>>>>>>>>> Le >>>>>>>>>> Mouvement Social, in French. The reason I had an article published >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> very prestigious journal is because those closely involved with the >>>>>>>>>> journal >>>>>>>>>> thought an article by me would be a good thing. One of the people >>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> suggested this did not know me personally. He only knew my work, and >>>>>>>>>> respected it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What does this have to do with what I was talking about? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bill, Bill, you are the one who said above: "Is that the same fear that >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> French feel? I take what the French >>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their language. >>>>>>>> But >>>>>>>> you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of >>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French." Have you forgotten >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> very own words? I was demonstrating French reactions to my writing in >>>>>>>> French. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> BUT YOU ARE FREAKIN FRENCH! >>>>>> >>>>>> Not by birth. But I have been a French citizen for over 20 years. But >>>>>> never freakin >>>>>> >>>>> My point was people who just try to speak French, not 2d language >>>>> speakers who are fluent "trying" to speak French. >>>> >>>> You did not previously make that nuance clear. >>>> >>> If your French is perfect, what's to worry about? But if someone >>> isn't perfect, they do get grief, isn't that correct? So if that is >>> correct, then consider how that makes fewer people interested in >>> trying to try out their French. Consider that everyone just expects >>> to deal with people who can't speak English very well, due to it >>> being their 2d language. >>> >> My French is not perfect, I have an accent because I was 30 years old when I >> learned the language, and at that age, you just don't lose the accent. Do I >> get grief? NO. In fact, I have had people tell me my accent is charming. >> You are not correct, Bill, so do try to get past the stereotype you have in >> your head. But then again, I'm not sure you can. You love it too much. >> > I pointed to attacks on me if I were to write here in French as a > perfect example. The fact that you are perfect enough to pass the > Frenchy tests proves nothing in regards to others who aren't so > great. But you don't write here in French, so what's your point? Donna Evleth > > > > -- > "Gonna take a sedimental journey", what Old Man River actually > said.
From: Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously) on 15 Jan 2010 15:29 Donna Evleth wrote: > > > From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > > <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > > those who come after us. > > Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:27:01 +0000 > > Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' > > > > > > > > Donna Evleth wrote: > >> > >>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > >>> those who come after us. > >>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:11:34 +0000 > >>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave > >>>>> to > >>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:41:43 +0000 > >>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more > >>>>> thanNazisdid' > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we > >>>>>>> leave > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>>>> Newsgroups: > >>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:59:53 +0000 > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more > >>>>>>> thanNazisdid' > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we > >>>>>>>>> leave > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: > >>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:21:08 +0000 > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more > >>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > >>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we > >>>>>>>>>>> leave > >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: > >>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:00:11 +0000 > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more > >>>>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colour me colourless)" > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>>>>>> leave > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:02:05 +0000 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more than > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nazisdid' > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Didn't you contest the claim that English words were disfavoured > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by > >>>>>>>>>>>>> officialdom in the French idioma? If official documents must be > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> French", doesn't that substantially prove the original assertion > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about the insular nature of the French and their Sprache? Which is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> odd compared to people nearby on an island with the most open > >>>>>>>>>>>>> major > >>>>>>>>>>>>> language in the world. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> There are people in the US who are screaming because election > >>>>>>>>>>>> ballots > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> driver's license exams are in Spanish as well as English. The > >>>>>>>>>>>> screamers > >>>>>>>>>>>> want English only. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Because the language of the United States is English. You can speak > >>>>>>>>>>> any languages you want, and there's nothing wrong with that, but > >>>>>>>>>>> you should know the English. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Here is an excerpt from an article in the Seoul Times of January > >>>>>>>>>>>> 12, > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 > >>>>>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>>>> the subject: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Adding ballots in languages other than English might increase the > >>>>>>>>>>>> cost > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> printing election materials from 15 to 40 percent. Adding bilingual > >>>>>>>>>>>> poll > >>>>>>>>>>>> workers adds to the expense. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Is that even possible? Who knows what '2nd' language someone might > >>>>>>>>>>> want? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cost is a definite concern, but some people have other strong > >>>>>>>>>>>> reservations. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Some object to the very idea of ballots in languages other than > >>>>>>>>>>>> English. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Some people fear that voting in Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese, or > >>>>>>>>>>>> whatever > >>>>>>>>>>>> second language the law might require, will result in the beginning > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> slippery rope which will Balkanize the country and lead it the same > >>>>>>>>>>>> path > >>>>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>>>> Canada into a possible break up. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Is that the same fear that the French feel? I take what the French > >>>>>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their > >>>>>>>>>>> language. But you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of > >>>>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French. I was told in > >>>>>>>>>>> this very newsgroup to try to write in French because the poster > >>>>>>>>>>> wanted a laugh. Apparently they couldn't find enough laughs in what > >>>>>>>>>>> I write in English. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> You are telling me that I "don't have to go far to hear people make > >>>>>>>>>> fun > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French". > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It's what French speakers do whenever someone tries to speak > >>>>>>>>> French. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> No, they don't. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I just visited upon you an example from this very newsgroup. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'm the one who lives in France, not you, so I know more > >>>>>>>> about it than you do, having a much better opportunity to judge. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But you speak fluent French. Good grief! I'm talking about going on > >>>>>>> holiday and stammering out a request for bonbons. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> This is one of your more > >>>>>>>>>> stupid remarks. The French love people who are not native > >>>>>>>>>> francophones > >>>>>>>>>> who > >>>>>>>>>> make the effort to read and write in French. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Oh give me a break. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> No, you give me a break, from your tedious stereotyping. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Show me where the support is for people who wish to practice French > >>>>>>> on the French. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I am a living example. In > >>>>>>>>>> December 2009 I had an article published in a prestigious French > >>>>>>>>>> journal, > >>>>>>>>>> Le > >>>>>>>>>> Mouvement Social, in French. The reason I had an article published > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>> very prestigious journal is because those closely involved with the > >>>>>>>>>> journal > >>>>>>>>>> thought an article by me would be a good thing. One of the people > >>>>>>>>>> who > >>>>>>>>>> suggested this did not know me personally. He only knew my work, and > >>>>>>>>>> respected it. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> What does this have to do with what I was talking about? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Bill, Bill, you are the one who said above: "Is that the same fear that > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> French feel? I take what the French > >>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their language. > >>>>>>>> But > >>>>>>>> you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of > >>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French." Have you forgotten > >>>>>>>> your > >>>>>>>> very own words? I was demonstrating French reactions to my writing in > >>>>>>>> French. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> BUT YOU ARE FREAKIN FRENCH! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Not by birth. But I have been a French citizen for over 20 years. But > >>>>>> never freakin > >>>>>> > >>>>> My point was people who just try to speak French, not 2d language > >>>>> speakers who are fluent "trying" to speak French. > >>>> > >>>> You did not previously make that nuance clear. > >>>> > >>> If your French is perfect, what's to worry about? But if someone > >>> isn't perfect, they do get grief, isn't that correct? So if that is > >>> correct, then consider how that makes fewer people interested in > >>> trying to try out their French. Consider that everyone just expects > >>> to deal with people who can't speak English very well, due to it > >>> being their 2d language. > >>> > >> My French is not perfect, I have an accent because I was 30 years old when I > >> learned the language, and at that age, you just don't lose the accent. Do I > >> get grief? NO. In fact, I have had people tell me my accent is charming. > >> You are not correct, Bill, so do try to get past the stereotype you have in > >> your head. But then again, I'm not sure you can. You love it too much. > >> > > I pointed to attacks on me if I were to write here in French as a > > perfect example. The fact that you are perfect enough to pass the > > Frenchy tests proves nothing in regards to others who aren't so > > great. > > But you don't write here in French, so what's your point? > I'm saying, if I were to write in French here. See, that's the point. -- "Gonna take a sedimental journey", what Old Man River actually said.
From: Donna Evleth on 16 Jan 2010 06:59
> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" > <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > those who come after us. > Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:29:37 +0000 > Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' > > > > Donna Evleth wrote: >> >>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to >>> those who come after us. >>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:27:01 +0000 >>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more thanNazisdid' >>> >>> >>> >>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave >>>>> to >>>>> those who come after us. >>>>> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:11:34 +0000 >>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>> leave >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:41:43 +0000 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:59:53 +0000 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we >>>>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:21:08 +0000 >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas don't sleep furiously)" >>>>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:00:11 +0000 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>>>>>>>> thanNazisdid' >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Donna Evleth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Bonde {Colour me colourless)" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tribuyltinafpant(a)yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those who come after us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.europe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:02:05 +0000 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: English invasion 'threatens Fwench language more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nazisdid' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Didn't you contest the claim that English words were disfavoured >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> officialdom in the French idioma? If official documents must be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> French", doesn't that substantially prove the original assertion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the insular nature of the French and their Sprache? Which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> odd compared to people nearby on an island with the most open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language in the world. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are people in the US who are screaming because election >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ballots >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver's license exams are in Spanish as well as English. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> screamers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want English only. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because the language of the United States is English. You can >>>>>>>>>>>>> speak >>>>>>>>>>>>> any languages you want, and there's nothing wrong with that, but >>>>>>>>>>>>> you should know the English. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is an excerpt from an article in the Seoul Times of January >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the subject: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adding ballots in languages other than English might increase the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> printing election materials from 15 to 40 percent. Adding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bilingual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> poll >>>>>>>>>>>>>> workers adds to the expense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Is that even possible? Who knows what '2nd' language someone might >>>>>>>>>>>>> want? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cost is a definite concern, but some people have other strong >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reservations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some object to the very idea of ballots in languages other than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> English. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some people fear that voting in Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second language the law might require, will result in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> slippery rope which will Balkanize the country and lead it the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> path >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada into a possible break up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Is that the same fear that the French feel? I take what the French >>>>>>>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their >>>>>>>>>>>>> language. But you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French. I was told in >>>>>>>>>>>>> this very newsgroup to try to write in French because the poster >>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted a laugh. Apparently they couldn't find enough laughs in >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> I write in English. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You are telling me that I "don't have to go far to hear people make >>>>>>>>>>>> fun >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French". >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's what French speakers do whenever someone tries to speak >>>>>>>>>>> French. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No, they don't. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I just visited upon you an example from this very newsgroup. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm the one who lives in France, not you, so I know more >>>>>>>>>> about it than you do, having a much better opportunity to judge. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But you speak fluent French. Good grief! I'm talking about going on >>>>>>>>> holiday and stammering out a request for bonbons. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is one of your more >>>>>>>>>>>> stupid remarks. The French love people who are not native >>>>>>>>>>>> francophones >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> make the effort to read and write in French. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Oh give me a break. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No, you give me a break, from your tedious stereotyping. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Show me where the support is for people who wish to practice French >>>>>>>>> on the French. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am a living example. In >>>>>>>>>>>> December 2009 I had an article published in a prestigious French >>>>>>>>>>>> journal, >>>>>>>>>>>> Le >>>>>>>>>>>> Mouvement Social, in French. The reason I had an article published >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> very prestigious journal is because those closely involved with the >>>>>>>>>>>> journal >>>>>>>>>>>> thought an article by me would be a good thing. One of the people >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> suggested this did not know me personally. He only knew my work, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> respected it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What does this have to do with what I was talking about? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bill, Bill, you are the one who said above: "Is that the same fear >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> French feel? I take what the French >>>>>>>>>> are doing as becoming angry that any purity issues in their language. >>>>>>>>>> But >>>>>>>>>> you don't have to go far to hear people make fun of >>>>>>>>>> anyone who might try to write or speak in French." Have you >>>>>>>>>> forgotten >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> very own words? I was demonstrating French reactions to my writing >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> French. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BUT YOU ARE FREAKIN FRENCH! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not by birth. But I have been a French citizen for over 20 years. But >>>>>>>> never freakin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> My point was people who just try to speak French, not 2d language >>>>>>> speakers who are fluent "trying" to speak French. >>>>>> >>>>>> You did not previously make that nuance clear. >>>>>> >>>>> If your French is perfect, what's to worry about? But if someone >>>>> isn't perfect, they do get grief, isn't that correct? So if that is >>>>> correct, then consider how that makes fewer people interested in >>>>> trying to try out their French. Consider that everyone just expects >>>>> to deal with people who can't speak English very well, due to it >>>>> being their 2d language. >>>>> >>>> My French is not perfect, I have an accent because I was 30 years old when >>>> I >>>> learned the language, and at that age, you just don't lose the accent. Do >>>> I >>>> get grief? NO. In fact, I have had people tell me my accent is charming. >>>> You are not correct, Bill, so do try to get past the stereotype you have in >>>> your head. But then again, I'm not sure you can. You love it too much. >>>> >>> I pointed to attacks on me if I were to write here in French as a >>> perfect example. The fact that you are perfect enough to pass the >>> Frenchy tests proves nothing in regards to others who aren't so >>> great. >> >> But you don't write here in French, so what's your point? >> > I'm saying, if I were to write in French here. See, that's the > point. But since very few of us here ever write in French, or if they do, not more than a word or two, there is no point to see. Donna Evleth > > > > -- > "Gonna take a sedimental journey", what Old Man River actually > said. |