Greyhound
in [Cruise Ship]
|
Prev: Mariner ots cabin position?
Next: FLL to Hilton Miami
From: Kurt Ullman on 3 Aug 2008 17:03 In article <Hxolk.17822$jI5.8174(a)flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com>, "Jean O'Boyle" <j.oboyle(a)removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I just could not stand by and abandon someone who was in trouble, Kurt..I > could not live with myself if I did. Nobody said otherwise. But help them. Running head long into a situation you are not prepared for seldom helps the other person, unless someone thinks bleeding and dying next to them is helpful. Call the cops, if you can find an appropriate weapon and know how to use, do that. If you can (safely) distract the person do that. The original suggestion was that a whole bunch of people should rush someone with a large knife. Not a good idea to my mind. I am sure he would get a least a couple of you. > Put yourself in the victim's place and see how helpless they are. I do, which is why I don't want to be an additional victim. One of my > sons is a police officer and I am sure he would not want me to put myself in > harm's way, but I still feel that I must do something when another human > being is being harmed. The cops are taught to be careful entering a situation. They are taught that you can't help the person if you are also hurt or killed. Sometimes the perp does not think anyone will react > and is counting on it. Sometimes I have a gun and the perp has a knife (so typical of today's crazy person.. bringing a knife to gun fight). Most of the time, the perp will react like any other person who percieves they are being attacked. They will lash out with their weapon. I never said not do anything, in fact I said quite the opposite. I just said do whatever you can do without endangering yourself. I am (obviously) more likely to get directly involved with a single person hitting someone with their fists than I am a group of people or someone with a weapon. But even in the other situation, I can call the cops and do other things safely.
From: Rosalie B. on 3 Aug 2008 17:10 "Jean O'Boyle" <j.oboyle(a)removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:kurtullman-B6853E.15033303082008(a)70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net... >> In article <cVmlk.3211$zv7.2244(a)flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>, >> "Jean O'Boyle" <j.oboyle(a)removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> AMEN Becca! What has happened to this world that one sits or walks away >>> when another is in trouble? I applaud Les for his stand. >>> >> >> I really can't. Heck the training the COPS get, say don't just go >> running headlong into a situation. If you do, the chances are good all >> you do is add to the casualty count. All you do if you get hurt is make >> it that much harder for the first responders to do their job when they >> get there. >> >> Of course, not running head long to your death is different from >> calling in the cops, rendering aid when the situation is more stable, >> etc. The ones worthy of your ire are the people watching and doing >> nothing else > >I just could not stand by and abandon someone who was in trouble, Kurt..I >could not live with myself if I did. But you see, if you go in without appropriate skills, you are not going to have to live with yourself. You will be dead. Kurt is right - you let people with appropriate training handle the emergencies. >Put yourself in the victim's place and see how helpless they are. One of my >sons is a police officer and I am sure he would not want me to put myself in >harm's way, but I still feel that I must do something when another human >being is being harmed. Sometimes the perp does not think anyone will react >and is counting on it. OK let's take an example where someone sees someone in trouble - not necessarily in a crime situation but drowning or something like that. Your child is drowning. You can't swim. You go in to save your child, and you drown. Meanwhile your child manages to get himself to shore, or is saved by another person who has the appropriate skills. Do you want the burden of your death put on your child? His fault that you died. The *real* question is - what is appropriate to do in the circumstances. Assessing the situation and your ability to help is not the same as doing nothing.
From: clint on 3 Aug 2008 17:27 I am a senior and took my grandson to the beach. He got carried ouy by a riptide. This young guy swam out and svaed him! Guess what my cow said to the guy? "He had a hat!" "Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message news:oc7c94dn12ruip5ncf8cmrtlir2dvitsbj(a)4ax.com... > "Jean O'Boyle" <j.oboyle(a)removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> >>"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >>news:kurtullman-B6853E.15033303082008(a)70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net... >>> In article <cVmlk.3211$zv7.2244(a)flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>, >>> "Jean O'Boyle" <j.oboyle(a)removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> AMEN Becca! What has happened to this world that one sits or walks >>>> away >>>> when another is in trouble? I applaud Les for his stand. >>>> >>> >>> I really can't. Heck the training the COPS get, say don't just go >>> running headlong into a situation. If you do, the chances are good all >>> you do is add to the casualty count. All you do if you get hurt is make >>> it that much harder for the first responders to do their job when they >>> get there. >>> >>> Of course, not running head long to your death is different from >>> calling in the cops, rendering aid when the situation is more stable, >>> etc. The ones worthy of your ire are the people watching and doing >>> nothing else >> >>I just could not stand by and abandon someone who was in trouble, Kurt..I >>could not live with myself if I did. > > But you see, if you go in without appropriate skills, you are not > going to have to live with yourself. You will be dead. > > Kurt is right - you let people with appropriate training handle the > emergencies. > >>Put yourself in the victim's place and see how helpless they are. One of >>my >>sons is a police officer and I am sure he would not want me to put myself >>in >>harm's way, but I still feel that I must do something when another human >>being is being harmed. Sometimes the perp does not think anyone will react >>and is counting on it. > > OK let's take an example where someone sees someone in trouble - not > necessarily in a crime situation but drowning or something like that. > Your child is drowning. You can't swim. You go in to save your > child, and you drown. Meanwhile your child manages to get himself to > shore, or is saved by another person who has the appropriate skills. > Do you want the burden of your death put on your child? His fault > that you died. > > The *real* question is - what is appropriate to do in the > circumstances. Assessing the situation and your ability to help is > not the same as doing nothing. >
From: Joan on 3 Aug 2008 19:08 On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 15:28:24 -0500, "Jean O'Boyle" <j.oboyle(a)removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >I just could not stand by and abandon someone who was in trouble, Kurt..I >could not live with myself if I did. >--Jean > Right, so imagine how the other bus passengers are feeling right now. Do you think they sipping champagne and celebrating because they survived? Not a chance. This will affect them for the rest of their lives. Not only did they witness a gruesome act, but they will feel guilty for not being able to help the victim, and they will feel guilty for surviving. I'm sure all of them have replayed this scene over and over again, wondering if they could have done something to help. You cannot possibly know what you would have done in this situation, and you cannot possibly know what the other passengers saw, heard, thought, and did or did not do. Be thankful that you can sit in the safety of your home and proclaim your heroism. Pray that you will never be put to the test. But don't for a minute suggest that any of the bus passengers did anything wrong by not saving the victim! Joan
From: Goomba on 3 Aug 2008 20:14
Jean O'Boyle wrote: > I just could not stand by and abandon someone who was in trouble, Kurt..I > could not live with myself if I did. > Put yourself in the victim's place and see how helpless they are. One of my > sons is a police officer and I am sure he would not want me to put myself in > harm's way, but I still feel that I must do something when another human > being is being harmed. Sometimes the perp does not think anyone will react > and is counting on it. > > --Jean > Not to interrupt you patting yourself on the back but the first lesson rescuers (to include your son the policeman) learn is to assess the situation as being safe for you to enter. Your rushing in (as admirable as you want to be) may be doing nothing productive to the situation and in fact might cause more trouble. You could be adding to the burden when you also are harmed and now the trained rescuers have two victims to deal with instead of one. |