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From: tim.... on 31 Jul 2010 08:22

"Martin" <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote:
>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late September/early October
>>> and I'd like advice on transport options - that is. air, rail or sea or
>>> a
>>> mix of these. My main concern is comfort and convenience rather than
>>> price, but time is of concern as well.
>>
>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services:
>>
>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too
>> long
>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to be booked
>> several
>> weeks ahead.
>>
>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20, sometimes
>> direct, sometimes by taking the local train to Malmo and changing (IME
>> the
>> onward connection will wait). Overnight train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo
>> 22:48
>> arrives 7:05. All trains require reservation but usually not too far in
>> advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the fare (assuming
>> you
>> select the right options).
>>
>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have only
>> operated in the summer and you are going in the winter. It's probably
>> too
>> early to tell what this year's timetable will be (if it does run, the
>> times
>> will be similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the route
>> they
>> are the same trains - though obviously the return direction). There's
>> lots
>> of low cost flights on the route (which is why the train isn't frequent)
>> but
>> the airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are expensive and
>> time
>> consuming to get to. There are three express buses a day taking 8 hours
>> but
>> I guess that doesn't meet the "comfort" requirement.
>
> If he has limited time it is better to fly.

An overnight train costs little real time.

tim




From: Martin on 31 Jul 2010 09:27
On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote:
> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote:
>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late September/early October
>>>> and I'd like advice on transport options - that is. air, rail or sea or
>>>> a
>>>> mix of these. My main concern is comfort and convenience rather than
>>>> price, but time is of concern as well.
>>>
>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services:
>>>
>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too
>>> long
>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to be booked
>>> several
>>> weeks ahead.
>>>
>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20, sometimes
>>> direct, sometimes by taking the local train to Malmo and changing (IME
>>> the
>>> onward connection will wait). Overnight train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo
>>> 22:48
>>> arrives 7:05. All trains require reservation but usually not too far in
>>> advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the fare (assuming
>>> you
>>> select the right options).
>>>
>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have only
>>> operated in the summer and you are going in the winter. It's probably
>>> too
>>> early to tell what this year's timetable will be (if it does run, the
>>> times
>>> will be similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the route
>>> they
>>> are the same trains - though obviously the return direction). There's
>>> lots
>>> of low cost flights on the route (which is why the train isn't frequent)
>>> but
>>> the airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are expensive and
>>> time
>>> consuming to get to. There are three express buses a day taking 8 hours
>>> but
>>> I guess that doesn't meet the "comfort" requirement.
>>
>> If he has limited time it is better to fly.
>
> An overnight train costs little real time.

Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price
compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with a
normal 2nd class train ticket.
If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for
long distances.
From: James Silverton on 31 Jul 2010 09:55
Martin wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:27:26 +0200:

> On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote:
>> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote:
>>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late
>>>>> September/early October and I'd like advice on transport
>>>>> options - that is. air, rail or sea or a mix of these. My
>>>>> main concern is comfort and convenience rather than price,
>>>>> but time is of concern as well.
>>>>
>>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services:
>>>>
>>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably
>>>> too
>>>> long
>>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to
>>>> be booked several weeks ahead.
>>>>
>>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20,
>>>> sometimes direct, sometimes by taking the local train to
>>>> Malmo and changing (IME the onward connection will wait).
>>>> Overnight train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo 22:48 arrives 7:05. All
>>>> trains require reservation but usually not too far
>>>> in advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the
>>>> fare (assuming you select the right options).
>>>>
>>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have
>>>> only operated in the summer and you are going in the
>>>> winter. It's probably too early to tell what this year's
>>>> timetable will be (if it does run, the times will be
>>>> similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the
>>>> route they are the same trains - though obviously the
>>>> return direction). There's lots of low cost flights on the
>>>> route (which is why the train isn't frequent) but the
>>>> airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are
>>>> expensive and time consuming to get to. There are three
>>>> express buses a day taking 8 hours but I guess that doesn't
>>>> meet the "comfort" requirement.
>>>
>>> If he has limited time it is better to fly.
>>
>> An overnight train costs little real time.

>Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price
>compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with
>a normal 2nd class train ticket.
>If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for
l>ong distances.

Not just "dead" but grubby and with wrinkled clothes if you can't check
into a hotel when you arrive. There are sleeper trains with showers but
I can't speak about those routes. I have often wondered what advantage
there is supposed to be about those fully reclining first class seats to
Dubai, Japan and Europe.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

From: Runge 124 on 31 Jul 2010 10:22
Keep on wondering

"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton(a)verizon.net> a �crit dans le message de
groupe de discussion : i31a1e$be8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> Martin wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:27:26 +0200:
>
>> On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote:
>>> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote:
>>>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late
>>>>>> September/early October and I'd like advice on transport
>>>>>> options - that is. air, rail or sea or a mix of these. My
>>>>>> main concern is comfort and convenience rather than price,
>>>>>> but time is of concern as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services:
>>>>>
>>>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too
>>>>> long
>>>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to
>>>>> be booked several weeks ahead.
>>>>>
>>>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20,
>>>>> sometimes direct, sometimes by taking the local train to
>>>>> Malmo and changing (IME the onward connection will wait). Overnight
>>>>> train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo 22:48 arrives 7:05. All trains require
>>>>> reservation but usually not too far
>>>>> in advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the
>>>>> fare (assuming you select the right options).
>>>>>
>>>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have
>>>>> only operated in the summer and you are going in the
>>>>> winter. It's probably too early to tell what this year's
>>>>> timetable will be (if it does run, the times will be
>>>>> similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the
>>>>> route they are the same trains - though obviously the
>>>>> return direction). There's lots of low cost flights on the
>>>>> route (which is why the train isn't frequent) but the
>>>>> airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are
>>>>> expensive and time consuming to get to. There are three
>>>>> express buses a day taking 8 hours but I guess that doesn't
>>>>> meet the "comfort" requirement.
>>>>
>>>> If he has limited time it is better to fly.
>>>
>>> An overnight train costs little real time.
>
>>Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price
>>compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with a
>>normal 2nd class train ticket.
>>If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for
> l>ong distances.
>
> Not just "dead" but grubby and with wrinkled clothes if you can't check
> into a hotel when you arrive. There are sleeper trains with showers but I
> can't speak about those routes. I have often wondered what advantage there
> is supposed to be about those fully reclining first class seats to Dubai,
> Japan and Europe.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

From: Martin on 31 Jul 2010 10:59
On 31/07/10 15:55, James Silverton wrote:
> Martin wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:27:26 +0200:
>
>> On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote:
>>> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote:
>>>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late
>>>>>> September/early October and I'd like advice on transport
>>>>>> options - that is. air, rail or sea or a mix of these. My
>>>>>> main concern is comfort and convenience rather than price,
>>>>>> but time is of concern as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services:
>>>>>
>>>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too
>>>>> long
>>>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to
>>>>> be booked several weeks ahead.
>>>>>
>>>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20,
>>>>> sometimes direct, sometimes by taking the local train to
>>>>> Malmo and changing (IME the onward connection will wait). Overnight
>>>>> train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo 22:48 arrives 7:05. All trains require
>>>>> reservation but usually not too far
>>>>> in advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the
>>>>> fare (assuming you select the right options).
>>>>>
>>>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have
>>>>> only operated in the summer and you are going in the
>>>>> winter. It's probably too early to tell what this year's
>>>>> timetable will be (if it does run, the times will be
>>>>> similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the
>>>>> route they are the same trains - though obviously the
>>>>> return direction). There's lots of low cost flights on the
>>>>> route (which is why the train isn't frequent) but the
>>>>> airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are
>>>>> expensive and time consuming to get to. There are three
>>>>> express buses a day taking 8 hours but I guess that doesn't
>>>>> meet the "comfort" requirement.
>>>>
>>>> If he has limited time it is better to fly.
>>>
>>> An overnight train costs little real time.
>
>> Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price
>> compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with
>> a normal 2nd class train ticket.
>> If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for
> l>ong distances.
>
> Not just "dead" but grubby and with wrinkled clothes if you can't check
> into a hotel when you arrive.

I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to
Paris. The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled
the whole way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train
arrived in Paris sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the
connecting train which got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful.
Never again!

There are sleeper trains with showers but
> I can't speak about those routes. I have often wondered what advantage
> there is supposed to be about those fully reclining first class seats to
> Dubai, Japan and Europe.
>

I had one on a business class intercontinental flight with Air France
flight I slept like a log and woke up with a hang over.
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