From: Hatunen on
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:16:34 +0200, Martin
<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 31/07/10 18:50, Hatunen wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:29:18 +0100, "tim...."
>> <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to Paris.
>>>> The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled the whole
>>>> way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train arrived in Paris
>>>> sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the connecting train which
>>>> got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful.
>>>
>>>
>>> I find the "rolling" helps me sleep. It's the noise if someone opens the
>>> window (in non AC units) that I can't cope with.
>>>
>>> I agree that early arrivals don't help, but the Amsterdam-Copenhagen train
>>> arrives at a sensible time, The Malmo-Stockholm-Oslo sets, perhaps not so.
>>
>> It's been my experience that where a sleeper route will get you
>> to your destination too early, the train will park on a siding
>> for a couple of hours en route.
>
>Unfortunately that wasn't my experience.
>>
>>> Booking two weeks from now a couchette AMS-CPH is 89 Euro or 179 Euro for a
>>> single cabin. Best flight price that I can find is 50 Euro. After adding
>>> on the transfers to the airport and a hotel I think that the train looks
>>> good value.
>>
>> My CityNightLine map of several years vintage doesn't show a
>> direct sleeper route Amsterdam->Copenhagen. The DB schedule
>> engine shows CNL40447 goes via Cologne.
>
>http://onlineboeken.nshispeed.nl/microtips/display
>
>board at 17:41 arrive 10:06 the following day 16 hours on a bloody
>train! Direct.

Direct in teh sense that you don't have to change trains. But
certainly not geogrphically direct.

>Ticket price EUR145 in a 4 person couchette

Shared with strangers?

Unless you mean booking the entire couchette, the CNL brochure
seems to indicate EUR69 per person, 4 person couchette.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Martin on
On 31/07/10 19:45, Hatunen wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:16:34 +0200, Martin
> <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 31/07/10 18:50, Hatunen wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:29:18 +0100, "tim...."
>>> <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to Paris.
>>>>> The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled the whole
>>>>> way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train arrived in Paris
>>>>> sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the connecting train which
>>>>> got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I find the "rolling" helps me sleep. It's the noise if someone opens the
>>>> window (in non AC units) that I can't cope with.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that early arrivals don't help, but the Amsterdam-Copenhagen train
>>>> arrives at a sensible time, The Malmo-Stockholm-Oslo sets, perhaps not so.
>>>
>>> It's been my experience that where a sleeper route will get you
>>> to your destination too early, the train will park on a siding
>>> for a couple of hours en route.
>>
>> Unfortunately that wasn't my experience.
>>>
>>>> Booking two weeks from now a couchette AMS-CPH is 89 Euro or 179 Euro for a
>>>> single cabin. Best flight price that I can find is 50 Euro. After adding
>>>> on the transfers to the airport and a hotel I think that the train looks
>>>> good value.
>>>
>>> My CityNightLine map of several years vintage doesn't show a
>>> direct sleeper route Amsterdam->Copenhagen. The DB schedule
>>> engine shows CNL40447 goes via Cologne.
>>
>> http://onlineboeken.nshispeed.nl/microtips/display
>>
>> board at 17:41 arrive 10:06 the following day 16 hours on a bloody
>> train! Direct.
>
> Direct in teh sense that you don't have to change trains. But
> certainly not geogrphically direct.

In the same sense that you used "direct route" :o)

>> Ticket price EUR145 in a 4 person couchette
>
> Shared with strangers?

They could be three blonde Scandinavian bimbos.

>
> Unless you mean booking the entire couchette, the CNL brochure
> seems to indicate EUR69 per person, 4 person couchette.
>
>

From: Tom P on
On 07/31/2010 04:59 PM, Martin wrote:
> On 31/07/10 15:55, James Silverton wrote:
>> Martin wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:27:26 +0200:
>>
>>> On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote:
>>>> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote:
>>>>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late
>>>>>>> September/early October and I'd like advice on transport
>>>>>>> options - that is. air, rail or sea or a mix of these. My
>>>>>>> main concern is comfort and convenience rather than price,
>>>>>>> but time is of concern as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to
>>>>>> be booked several weeks ahead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20,
>>>>>> sometimes direct, sometimes by taking the local train to
>>>>>> Malmo and changing (IME the onward connection will wait). Overnight
>>>>>> train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo 22:48 arrives 7:05. All trains require
>>>>>> reservation but usually not too far
>>>>>> in advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the
>>>>>> fare (assuming you select the right options).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have
>>>>>> only operated in the summer and you are going in the
>>>>>> winter. It's probably too early to tell what this year's
>>>>>> timetable will be (if it does run, the times will be
>>>>>> similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the
>>>>>> route they are the same trains - though obviously the
>>>>>> return direction). There's lots of low cost flights on the
>>>>>> route (which is why the train isn't frequent) but the
>>>>>> airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are
>>>>>> expensive and time consuming to get to. There are three
>>>>>> express buses a day taking 8 hours but I guess that doesn't
>>>>>> meet the "comfort" requirement.
>>>>>
>>>>> If he has limited time it is better to fly.
>>>>
>>>> An overnight train costs little real time.
>>
>>> Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price
>>> compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with
>>> a normal 2nd class train ticket.
>>> If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for
>> l>ong distances.
>>
>> Not just "dead" but grubby and with wrinkled clothes if you can't check
>> into a hotel when you arrive.
>
> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to
> Paris. The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled
> the whole way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train
> arrived in Paris sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the
> connecting train which got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful.
> Never again!
>
I'm inclined to agree. I've used overnight trains three times and every
time I regretted it the next day walking round feeling totally dead and
scruffy.
Overnight car ferries are a different story, provided you book
yourself a first class cabin you can sleep perfectly and have a decent
shower in privacy.
T.

> There are sleeper trains with showers but
>> I can't speak about those routes. I have often wondered what advantage
>> there is supposed to be about those fully reclining first class seats to
>> Dubai, Japan and Europe.
>>
>
> I had one on a business class intercontinental flight with Air France
> flight I slept like a log and woke up with a hang over.

From: Martin on
On 01/08/10 01:26, Tom P wrote:
> On 07/31/2010 04:59 PM, Martin wrote:
>> On 31/07/10 15:55, James Silverton wrote:
>>> Martin wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:27:26 +0200:
>>>
>>>> On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote:
>>>>> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote:
>>>>>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late
>>>>>>>> September/early October and I'd like advice on transport
>>>>>>>> options - that is. air, rail or sea or a mix of these. My
>>>>>>>> main concern is comfort and convenience rather than price,
>>>>>>>> but time is of concern as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too
>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to
>>>>>>> be booked several weeks ahead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20,
>>>>>>> sometimes direct, sometimes by taking the local train to
>>>>>>> Malmo and changing (IME the onward connection will wait). Overnight
>>>>>>> train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo 22:48 arrives 7:05. All trains require
>>>>>>> reservation but usually not too far
>>>>>>> in advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the
>>>>>>> fare (assuming you select the right options).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have
>>>>>>> only operated in the summer and you are going in the
>>>>>>> winter. It's probably too early to tell what this year's
>>>>>>> timetable will be (if it does run, the times will be
>>>>>>> similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the
>>>>>>> route they are the same trains - though obviously the
>>>>>>> return direction). There's lots of low cost flights on the
>>>>>>> route (which is why the train isn't frequent) but the
>>>>>>> airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are
>>>>>>> expensive and time consuming to get to. There are three
>>>>>>> express buses a day taking 8 hours but I guess that doesn't
>>>>>>> meet the "comfort" requirement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If he has limited time it is better to fly.
>>>>>
>>>>> An overnight train costs little real time.
>>>
>>>> Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price
>>>> compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with
>>>> a normal 2nd class train ticket.
>>>> If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for
>>> l>ong distances.
>>>
>>> Not just "dead" but grubby and with wrinkled clothes if you can't check
>>> into a hotel when you arrive.
>>
>> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to
>> Paris. The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled
>> the whole way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train
>> arrived in Paris sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the
>> connecting train which got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful.
>> Never again!
>>
> I'm inclined to agree. I've used overnight trains three times and every
> time I regretted it the next day walking round feeling totally dead and
> scruffy.

It took me a day to recover from the trip from Toulouse to the Netherlands.

A colleague travelling from Paris to Toulouse by night sleeper woke up
on the side of the track after a terrorist bomb exploded in the next
compartment.

> Overnight car ferries are a different story, provided you book yourself
> a first class cabin you can sleep perfectly and have a decent shower in
> privacy.

We take an normal cabin on P&O North Sea Ferries and sleep well. We also
take our own pillows. I never slept well on the Harwich Hoek night
ferries. There was too much noise at night from drunk passengers.
From: Cliff Bott on
The wife's coming too. And she doesn't do foursomes. Well not with blonde
Scandinavian bimbos anyway. I fear the alternative.

"Martin" <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:i326rp$r8a$5(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> On 31/07/10 19:45, Hatunen wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:16:34 +0200, Martin
>> <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 31/07/10 18:50, Hatunen wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:29:18 +0100, "tim...."
>>>> <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to
>>>>>> Paris.
>>>>>> The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled the
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train arrived in
>>>>>> Paris
>>>>>> sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the connecting train
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I find the "rolling" helps me sleep. It's the noise if someone opens
>>>>> the
>>>>> window (in non AC units) that I can't cope with.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that early arrivals don't help, but the Amsterdam-Copenhagen
>>>>> train
>>>>> arrives at a sensible time, The Malmo-Stockholm-Oslo sets, perhaps not
>>>>> so.
>>>>
>>>> It's been my experience that where a sleeper route will get you
>>>> to your destination too early, the train will park on a siding
>>>> for a couple of hours en route.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately that wasn't my experience.
>>>>
>>>>> Booking two weeks from now a couchette AMS-CPH is 89 Euro or 179 Euro
>>>>> for a
>>>>> single cabin. Best flight price that I can find is 50 Euro. After
>>>>> adding
>>>>> on the transfers to the airport and a hotel I think that the train
>>>>> looks
>>>>> good value.
>>>>
>>>> My CityNightLine map of several years vintage doesn't show a
>>>> direct sleeper route Amsterdam->Copenhagen. The DB schedule
>>>> engine shows CNL40447 goes via Cologne.
>>>
>>> http://onlineboeken.nshispeed.nl/microtips/display
>>>
>>> board at 17:41 arrive 10:06 the following day 16 hours on a bloody
>>> train! Direct.
>>
>> Direct in teh sense that you don't have to change trains. But
>> certainly not geogrphically direct.
>
> In the same sense that you used "direct route" :o)
>
>>> Ticket price EUR145 in a 4 person couchette
>>
>> Shared with strangers?
>
> They could be three blonde Scandinavian bimbos.
>
>>
>> Unless you mean booking the entire couchette, the CNL brochure
>> seems to indicate EUR69 per person, 4 person couchette.
>>
>>
>