From: Hatunen on 31 Jul 2010 13:45 On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:16:34 +0200, Martin <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >On 31/07/10 18:50, Hatunen wrote: >> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:29:18 +0100, "tim...." >> <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to Paris. >>>> The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled the whole >>>> way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train arrived in Paris >>>> sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the connecting train which >>>> got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful. >>> >>> >>> I find the "rolling" helps me sleep. It's the noise if someone opens the >>> window (in non AC units) that I can't cope with. >>> >>> I agree that early arrivals don't help, but the Amsterdam-Copenhagen train >>> arrives at a sensible time, The Malmo-Stockholm-Oslo sets, perhaps not so. >> >> It's been my experience that where a sleeper route will get you >> to your destination too early, the train will park on a siding >> for a couple of hours en route. > >Unfortunately that wasn't my experience. >> >>> Booking two weeks from now a couchette AMS-CPH is 89 Euro or 179 Euro for a >>> single cabin. Best flight price that I can find is 50 Euro. After adding >>> on the transfers to the airport and a hotel I think that the train looks >>> good value. >> >> My CityNightLine map of several years vintage doesn't show a >> direct sleeper route Amsterdam->Copenhagen. The DB schedule >> engine shows CNL40447 goes via Cologne. > >http://onlineboeken.nshispeed.nl/microtips/display > >board at 17:41 arrive 10:06 the following day 16 hours on a bloody >train! Direct. Direct in teh sense that you don't have to change trains. But certainly not geogrphically direct. >Ticket price EUR145 in a 4 person couchette Shared with strangers? Unless you mean booking the entire couchette, the CNL brochure seems to indicate EUR69 per person, 4 person couchette. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Martin on 31 Jul 2010 18:08 On 31/07/10 19:45, Hatunen wrote: > On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:16:34 +0200, Martin > <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 31/07/10 18:50, Hatunen wrote: >>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:29:18 +0100, "tim...." >>> <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>>> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to Paris. >>>>> The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled the whole >>>>> way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train arrived in Paris >>>>> sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the connecting train which >>>>> got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful. >>>> >>>> >>>> I find the "rolling" helps me sleep. It's the noise if someone opens the >>>> window (in non AC units) that I can't cope with. >>>> >>>> I agree that early arrivals don't help, but the Amsterdam-Copenhagen train >>>> arrives at a sensible time, The Malmo-Stockholm-Oslo sets, perhaps not so. >>> >>> It's been my experience that where a sleeper route will get you >>> to your destination too early, the train will park on a siding >>> for a couple of hours en route. >> >> Unfortunately that wasn't my experience. >>> >>>> Booking two weeks from now a couchette AMS-CPH is 89 Euro or 179 Euro for a >>>> single cabin. Best flight price that I can find is 50 Euro. After adding >>>> on the transfers to the airport and a hotel I think that the train looks >>>> good value. >>> >>> My CityNightLine map of several years vintage doesn't show a >>> direct sleeper route Amsterdam->Copenhagen. The DB schedule >>> engine shows CNL40447 goes via Cologne. >> >> http://onlineboeken.nshispeed.nl/microtips/display >> >> board at 17:41 arrive 10:06 the following day 16 hours on a bloody >> train! Direct. > > Direct in teh sense that you don't have to change trains. But > certainly not geogrphically direct. In the same sense that you used "direct route" :o) >> Ticket price EUR145 in a 4 person couchette > > Shared with strangers? They could be three blonde Scandinavian bimbos. > > Unless you mean booking the entire couchette, the CNL brochure > seems to indicate EUR69 per person, 4 person couchette. > >
From: Tom P on 31 Jul 2010 19:26 On 07/31/2010 04:59 PM, Martin wrote: > On 31/07/10 15:55, James Silverton wrote: >> Martin wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:27:26 +0200: >> >>> On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote: >>>> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote: >>>>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com... >>>>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late >>>>>>> September/early October and I'd like advice on transport >>>>>>> options - that is. air, rail or sea or a mix of these. My >>>>>>> main concern is comfort and convenience rather than price, >>>>>>> but time is of concern as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services: >>>>>> >>>>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too >>>>>> long >>>>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to >>>>>> be booked several weeks ahead. >>>>>> >>>>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20, >>>>>> sometimes direct, sometimes by taking the local train to >>>>>> Malmo and changing (IME the onward connection will wait). Overnight >>>>>> train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo 22:48 arrives 7:05. All trains require >>>>>> reservation but usually not too far >>>>>> in advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the >>>>>> fare (assuming you select the right options). >>>>>> >>>>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have >>>>>> only operated in the summer and you are going in the >>>>>> winter. It's probably too early to tell what this year's >>>>>> timetable will be (if it does run, the times will be >>>>>> similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the >>>>>> route they are the same trains - though obviously the >>>>>> return direction). There's lots of low cost flights on the >>>>>> route (which is why the train isn't frequent) but the >>>>>> airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are >>>>>> expensive and time consuming to get to. There are three >>>>>> express buses a day taking 8 hours but I guess that doesn't >>>>>> meet the "comfort" requirement. >>>>> >>>>> If he has limited time it is better to fly. >>>> >>>> An overnight train costs little real time. >> >>> Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price >>> compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with >>> a normal 2nd class train ticket. >>> If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for >> l>ong distances. >> >> Not just "dead" but grubby and with wrinkled clothes if you can't check >> into a hotel when you arrive. > > I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to > Paris. The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled > the whole way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train > arrived in Paris sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the > connecting train which got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful. > Never again! > I'm inclined to agree. I've used overnight trains three times and every time I regretted it the next day walking round feeling totally dead and scruffy. Overnight car ferries are a different story, provided you book yourself a first class cabin you can sleep perfectly and have a decent shower in privacy. T. > There are sleeper trains with showers but >> I can't speak about those routes. I have often wondered what advantage >> there is supposed to be about those fully reclining first class seats to >> Dubai, Japan and Europe. >> > > I had one on a business class intercontinental flight with Air France > flight I slept like a log and woke up with a hang over.
From: Martin on 1 Aug 2010 03:55 On 01/08/10 01:26, Tom P wrote: > On 07/31/2010 04:59 PM, Martin wrote: >> On 31/07/10 15:55, James Silverton wrote: >>> Martin wrote on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:27:26 +0200: >>> >>>> On 31/07/10 14:22, tim.... wrote: >>>>> "Martin"<martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>>> news:i3111a$7m8$3(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>> On 31/07/10 12:41, tim.... wrote: >>>>>>> "Cliff Bott"<cliff_bott(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:54Q4o.2185$Yv.619(a)viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com... >>>>>>>> I'm visiting those cities in that order in late >>>>>>>> September/early October and I'd like advice on transport >>>>>>>> options - that is. air, rail or sea or a mix of these. My >>>>>>>> main concern is comfort and convenience rather than price, >>>>>>>> but time is of concern as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All of those routes currently have usable overnight rail services: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> AMS-CHP: depart 17:40 arrive 11:15. Day time journey is probably too >>>>>>> long >>>>>>> to consider useful. Overnight train can sometimes need to >>>>>>> be booked several weeks ahead. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CHP-STK: departure every 2 hours during the day taking 5:20, >>>>>>> sometimes direct, sometimes by taking the local train to >>>>>>> Malmo and changing (IME the onward connection will wait). Overnight >>>>>>> train (M-F,Su) departs Malmo 22:48 arrives 7:05. All trains require >>>>>>> reservation but usually not too far >>>>>>> in advance, the further in advance you book the cheaper the >>>>>>> fare (assuming you select the right options). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> STK-OSL: More difficult as in past years the direct trains have >>>>>>> only operated in the summer and you are going in the >>>>>>> winter. It's probably too early to tell what this year's >>>>>>> timetable will be (if it does run, the times will be >>>>>>> similar to the Malmo-Stockholm times as for part of the >>>>>>> route they are the same trains - though obviously the >>>>>>> return direction). There's lots of low cost flights on the >>>>>>> route (which is why the train isn't frequent) but the >>>>>>> airports aren't convenient to the city centre and are >>>>>>> expensive and time consuming to get to. There are three >>>>>>> express buses a day taking 8 hours but I guess that doesn't >>>>>>> meet the "comfort" requirement. >>>>>> >>>>>> If he has limited time it is better to fly. >>>>> >>>>> An overnight train costs little real time. >>> >>>> Other than being dead the next day.How does the night sleeper price >>>> compare to an air fare between A'dam and Copenahagen.I don't mean with >>>> a normal 2nd class train ticket. >>>> If you are obsessed with train travel OK. Otherwise travel by air for >>> l>ong distances. >>> >>> Not just "dead" but grubby and with wrinkled clothes if you can't check >>> into a hotel when you arrive. >> >> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to >> Paris. The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled >> the whole way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train >> arrived in Paris sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the >> connecting train which got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful. >> Never again! >> > I'm inclined to agree. I've used overnight trains three times and every > time I regretted it the next day walking round feeling totally dead and > scruffy. It took me a day to recover from the trip from Toulouse to the Netherlands. A colleague travelling from Paris to Toulouse by night sleeper woke up on the side of the track after a terrorist bomb exploded in the next compartment. > Overnight car ferries are a different story, provided you book yourself > a first class cabin you can sleep perfectly and have a decent shower in > privacy. We take an normal cabin on P&O North Sea Ferries and sleep well. We also take our own pillows. I never slept well on the Harwich Hoek night ferries. There was too much noise at night from drunk passengers.
From: Cliff Bott on 1 Aug 2010 06:03 The wife's coming too. And she doesn't do foursomes. Well not with blonde Scandinavian bimbos anyway. I fear the alternative. "Martin" <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:i326rp$r8a$5(a)news.eternal-september.org... > On 31/07/10 19:45, Hatunen wrote: >> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:16:34 +0200, Martin >> <martin(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 31/07/10 18:50, Hatunen wrote: >>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:29:18 +0100, "tim...." >>>> <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I tried it once with a first class sleeper ticket from Toulouse to >>>>>> Paris. >>>>>> The train started shortly before midnight, the carriage rolled the >>>>>> whole >>>>>> way, I had difficulty sleeping and worse still the train arrived in >>>>>> Paris >>>>>> sometime around 5:30 am. I crossed Paris caught the connecting train >>>>>> which >>>>>> got me to The Hague around 1pm. I felt dreadful. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I find the "rolling" helps me sleep. It's the noise if someone opens >>>>> the >>>>> window (in non AC units) that I can't cope with. >>>>> >>>>> I agree that early arrivals don't help, but the Amsterdam-Copenhagen >>>>> train >>>>> arrives at a sensible time, The Malmo-Stockholm-Oslo sets, perhaps not >>>>> so. >>>> >>>> It's been my experience that where a sleeper route will get you >>>> to your destination too early, the train will park on a siding >>>> for a couple of hours en route. >>> >>> Unfortunately that wasn't my experience. >>>> >>>>> Booking two weeks from now a couchette AMS-CPH is 89 Euro or 179 Euro >>>>> for a >>>>> single cabin. Best flight price that I can find is 50 Euro. After >>>>> adding >>>>> on the transfers to the airport and a hotel I think that the train >>>>> looks >>>>> good value. >>>> >>>> My CityNightLine map of several years vintage doesn't show a >>>> direct sleeper route Amsterdam->Copenhagen. The DB schedule >>>> engine shows CNL40447 goes via Cologne. >>> >>> http://onlineboeken.nshispeed.nl/microtips/display >>> >>> board at 17:41 arrive 10:06 the following day 16 hours on a bloody >>> train! Direct. >> >> Direct in teh sense that you don't have to change trains. But >> certainly not geogrphically direct. > > In the same sense that you used "direct route" :o) > >>> Ticket price EUR145 in a 4 person couchette >> >> Shared with strangers? > > They could be three blonde Scandinavian bimbos. > >> >> Unless you mean booking the entire couchette, the CNL brochure >> seems to indicate EUR69 per person, 4 person couchette. >> >> >
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