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From: Geoff Miller on 12 Oct 2007 12:13 EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <evgmsop(a)earthlink.net> writes: >>> Culturally? Give examples. : Coca-Cola. : Fast food. : Fashion and clothing styles. : Rock 'n' roll. : Television shows and Hollywood movies, and the cultural values : they impart in themselves. : MTV in particular deserves standalone mention. > You're kidding, right? On the contrary, I'm as serious as a heart attack. > It's true we have managed to export the very worst aspects of > our culture, but that's hardly something to be PROUD of!!!!! One, you truncated my list. Two, how culturally elevated (or not) those things are isn't the point. The mere fact of their influence is the point. They have influence because like it or not, or culture is stronger and more dynamic than yours are. Oh, and ponder this: If it weren't for Boeing, there'd be no Airbus. If it weren't for the stillborn American SST, there'd have been no Concorde. Europe is in perpetual reaction mode with respect to America. It's the geopolitical equivalent of keeping up with the Joneses...and you're always in second place. Geoff -- "Since the whole affair had become one of religion, the vanquished were of course exterminated. -- Voltaire
From: Frank F. Matthews on 12 Oct 2007 11:22 EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > Geoff Miller wrote: >> William Black <william.black(a)hotmail.co.uk> writes: >>> You don't understand. >>> We don't have a problem. >>> You do... >> Yeah, we have a problem, all right. That's how we got to be >> the most culturally, economically and militarily influential >> nation in the history of the planet, > Hmmmm.... > 1) We may have improved somewhat since the early twentieth century, but > to the rest of the world (and to many of our own citizens) the U.S. is > still a nation of comparative cultural barbarians! Actually that is quite different from my experience. While there are a fair members of 'elites' and their wannabees who express such a view it is not common. > 2) If by "economically" influential, you mean outsourcing jobs to third > world countries and exporting such home grown products as McDonald's and > Starbucks, you may be right, but it's certainly nothing to BRAG about! Ah! But it is something to brag about. A path toward economic success is valuable for many not just those in the US. By the way who do you think owns and makes most of the money from all those McDonalds? > 3) I think Nazi Germany still holds the record there - and if we > ccontinue in the vein the present administration has started, we may > well end up the same way, too. (Even many of our own citizens regard > Bush, Cheney, et al, as war criminals!) >> and why half the rest of >> the world is all but breaking down the figurative doors in their >> determination to come here. > Few from truly civilized countries - just from those where the labor > situation is even grimmer than ours is fast becoming! Actually I have met several immigrants from 'civilized' countries. And that would fit whatever selection criteria you would use for 'civilized'. Perhaps you are right though in that there are few places where the labor situation is not grimmer than in the US.
From: Doesn't Frequently Mop on 12 Oct 2007 12:50 Make credence recognised that on Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:35:36 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen(a)cox.net> has scripted: >On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:13:42 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop ><deepfreudmoors(a)eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: >>And that's just what self righteous whites have told me in the past, >>essentially accusing me of being racist, even when my girlfriend and >>best friend were dark skinned. >:o[ > >There is a peculiar streak in past racis. It was not uncommon for >a white pesrson to slam the people of another race as being >stupic lazy and shiftless. When someone points out that he knows >person A quite well, and although he is in that racial category, >he is obviously earnest and hard-working. The bigot will agree, >but consider it a special case. I don't like to judge anyone on what they say (or what they look like FWIW). Let me give you four cases which illustrate why I don't judge comments on race: 1. I like Chinese food (OK) 2. I don't like Chinese food (OK) 3. I like Chinese people (OK) 4. I don't like Chinese people (&$%#ing RACIST!!!!) >But if you can't see the harm done by makign bigoted comments and >jokes in public, far be it from me to interrupt your cognitive >dissonance. Been reading Scott Adams' blog by any chance? -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --
From: Dave Smith on 12 Oct 2007 12:48 Doesn't Frequently Mop wrote: > > > Let me give you four cases which illustrate why I don't judge comments > on race: > > 1. I like Chinese food (OK) > 2. I don't like Chinese food (OK) > 3. I like Chinese people (OK) > 4. I don't like Chinese people (&$%#ing RACIST!!!!) > > >But if you can't see the harm done by makign bigoted comments and > >jokes in public, far be it from me to interrupt your cognitive > >dissonance. But what if people of a particular race or culture share an attitude that is utterly abhorrent to our own moral standards? What if the person comes from a culture where theft and corruption are serious problems, where the treat women like third class citizens, allow no dissension and will not tolerate religious beliefs that differ from their own? Sure, they have put on a friendly front and be polite and solicitous, but you know that they have this underlying attitude that is so much at odds with what your personal views?
From: Geoff Miller on 12 Oct 2007 13:03
Andy Pandy <spam8times(a)wonderful.spam.invalid> writes: > Of course, but it would be incredible if the US, as the country with > by far the largest population in the "developed" world, *didn't* have > such an influence on the rest of the world. I didn't say it was inexplicable; I said it was so. And it was the fact of it, not any proffered explanation, that the previous poster scoffed at. > However on my trips to the US I've been surprised at the influence > UK culture has had on the US. Even the Spice Girls FFS (well that's > revenge!). Heh... Yeah, there's more and more of that thanks to the communications explosion brought on by the Internet. But Americans have long had a fascination with things British. It's the "mother country," for one thing. And the British Invasion of the 1960s -- the Beatles, the Stones, et al. -- sparked the idea that British things are hip. Geoff -- "Since the whole affair had become one of religion, the vanquished were of course exterminated. -- Voltaire |