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From: erilar on 12 Oct 2007 13:32 In article <0c2tg31c5u7bdp9f1fircq3885kuosfihf(a)4ax.com>, Hatunen <hatunen(a)cox.net> wrote: > I suppose you mean "And what portion of > Americans does the American right-wing represent?" I think some > actual number would be far more useful. Any number would be a meaningless number: where to draw the line? > Or is that a personal > observation, that they give YOU the impression they speak for > those who cringe at what they say? They DO give that impression because they are so loud and overbearing. Far too many people say nothing despite their disagreement. And _I_ don't believe they speak for anywhere near as many people as they try to claim, but far too many people do. -- Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar) You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is that reason doesn't count. --Isaac Asimov Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo
From: Jack Campin - bogus address on 12 Oct 2007 13:34 > But what if people of a particular race or culture share an attitude that > is utterly abhorrent to our own moral standards? What if the person comes > from a culture where theft and corruption are serious problems, where the > treat women like third class citizens, allow no dissension and will not > tolerate religious beliefs that differ from their own? Sure, they have put > on a friendly front and be polite and solicitous, but you know that they > have this underlying attitude that is so much at odds with what your > personal views? Not *everybody* from Texas is like that. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) on 12 Oct 2007 14:35 Geoff Miller wrote: > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <evgmsop(a)earthlink.net> writes: > > >>Hmmmm.... >>1) We may have improved somewhat since the early twentieth >>century, but to the rest of the world (and to many of our >>own citizens) the U.S. is still a nation of comparative >>cultural barbarians! > > > That's just your way of keeping your dignity and self-esteem > intact, having been surpassed in every way by that young, > upstart nation across the pond. It's just human nature that > one's own geopolitical irrelevance is difficult to accept. Uhhhh.... In case you hadn't noticed, I, too, am a native-born citizen of that "young, upstart nation". However, unlike you I can perceive my country's faults. (And contrary to the mouthings of our current president and his cronies, that doesn't mean I am less a "patriot".) I would simply like us to regain our standing in world opinion. (Something we will never do if we cannot admit we fall far short of perfection in many areas, when compared with most European countries.)
From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) on 12 Oct 2007 14:53 Dave Smith wrote: > Doesn't Frequently Mop wrote: > >> >>Let me give you four cases which illustrate why I don't judge comments >>on race: >> >>1. I like Chinese food (OK) >>2. I don't like Chinese food (OK) >>3. I like Chinese people (OK) >>4. I don't like Chinese people (&$%#ing RACIST!!!!) >> >> >>>But if you can't see the harm done by makign bigoted comments and >>>jokes in public, far be it from me to interrupt your cognitive >>>dissonance. > > > > But what if people of a particular race or culture share an attitude that > is utterly abhorrent to our own moral standards? First define "our"! More and more, in the U.S., members of the religious right are defining "America" by their own narrow, fundamentalist Christian viewpoint. (Even though our "moral" standards have actually become MORE rather than less diverse, in actual fact.) > What if the person comes > from a culture where theft and corruption are serious problems, As they seem to be becoming here. It's just that our politicians are better at hiding the facts, thanks to complacence and lack of attention on the part of our citizens. (Despite visible evidence to the contrary, too many still believe in the theory of "It can't happen here".) > where they > treat women like third class citizens, allow no dissension and will not > tolerate religious beliefs that differ from their own? Under the Bush administration, "Women's Lib" has been set back at least fifty years. As to "tolerating religious beliefs that differ from their own", listen to any evangelical preacher in the U.S. Most of them would be right at home with Hitler's "Kinder, Kuchen und Kirche".
From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) on 12 Oct 2007 14:58
erilar wrote: > In article <0c2tg31c5u7bdp9f1fircq3885kuosfihf(a)4ax.com>, > Hatunen <hatunen(a)cox.net> wrote: > > >>I suppose you mean "And what portion of >>Americans does the American right-wing represent?" I think some >>actual number would be far more useful. > > Any number would be a meaningless number: where to draw the > line? > >>Or is that a personal >>observation, that they give YOU the impression they speak for >>those who cringe at what they say? > > > They DO give that impression because they are so loud and overbearing. > Far too many people say nothing despite their disagreement. And _I_ > don't believe they speak for anywhere near as many people as they try to > claim, but far too many people do. Precisely why I have become far more politically active since the religious right took over than I ever was even in my college days! One voice alone can't accomplish much, but if each of us takes a stand, we may persuade others to express their views that differ from those of the (perceived) "majority". |