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From: Hatunen on 12 Oct 2007 17:37 On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:28:50 -0400, Dave Smith <adavidsmith(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >Hatunen wrote: > >> Oh, yes. The Europeans displayed their culture in 1914 and again >> in 1936 (Spanish civil war, a most cultural affair), and 1935 >> (Italy invades Ethiopia, apparently to help the Ethipians learn >> to appreciate opera), and let's not neglect all the European >> support for Hitler's anti-semitism, shall we?. > > >Perhaps they took a lesson from the US. Americans have invaded Canada >several times. Save for the War of 1812 (and the Revolution), the American government has never invaded Canada. Small groups of private citizens and non-citizens have, in the 19th century, attempted to invade Canada, with rather poor results. Americans moved into the Mexican state of Texas and then led >a fight for independence. You got me on that one. But that doesn't make us worse than the Europeans. >The US tried to buy the Mexican territory that is >now the south western states and when the Mexicans refused to sell, the US >provoked a war with them and as part of the treaty to end the war, bought >that territory for what they had been offering. Yep. >While there was >anti-Semitism across all of Europe for centuries, the US treatment of its >black citizens and the natives hardly puts it on the moral high ground. I didn't say it did. What I said is that Europeans don't have a claim to that high moral and cultural ground either. I >And >lets not forget that little conflict between the north and the south. I'm not sure wehre that fits in here. In any case, I suspect Europeans have gratuitously killed millions of more people over the last couple of centuries than have the Americans. I admit that lack of opportunity may be one of the reasons, of course. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Jack Campin - bogus address on 12 Oct 2007 17:42 >> Under the Bush administration, "Women's Lib" has been set >> back at least fifty years. > what rubbish. If you had actually been around in 1957 I don't see > how you can say that. For instance, compare the number of women > in the US Senate to the number in 1957. Or the number of women > CEOs of American corporations. Or the number of Protestant > ministers. > Check the number of female doctors and lawyers today to those in > 1957. Check out the number of women in shitty dead-end jobs with no prospect of anything but a lifetime of poverty. They are what the women's liberation movement was about. If women in the power elite were what it was about, Catherine's Russia would have been a feminist utopia. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
From: Dave Smith on 12 Oct 2007 18:03 Hatunen wrote: > >Perhaps they took a lesson from the US. Americans have invaded Canada > >several times. > > Save for the War of 1812 (and the Revolution), the American > government has never invaded Canada. Small groups of private > citizens and non-citizens have, in the 19th century, attempted to > invade Canada, with rather poor results. And sometimes they were large groups, and done so with the knowledge and approval of the US government, as in the Fenian raids after the Civil War. Then there were the threats and intimidation over the Alaskan border. > > Americans moved into the Mexican state of Texas and then led > >a fight for independence. > > You got me on that one. But that doesn't make us worse than the > Europeans. No it doesn't make you worse than the Europeans, just not any better. You spoke about "The Europeans displayed their culture in 1914 and again in 1936 (Spanish civil war, a most cultural affair), and 1935 (Italy invades Ethiopia, apparently to help the Ethipians learn to appreciate opera), and let's not neglect all the European support for Hitler's anti-semitism, shall we?. " Given the US civil war and wars against its neighbours, the US holds no moral high ground. > >While there was > >anti-Semitism across all of Europe for centuries, the US treatment of its > >black citizens and the natives hardly puts it on the moral high ground. > > I didn't say it did. What I said is that Europeans don't have a > claim to that high moral and cultural ground either. Nor does the US. > > >And > >lets not forget that little conflict between the north and the south. > > I'm not sure wehre that fits in here. In any case, I suspect > Europeans have gratuitously killed millions of more people over > the last couple of centuries than have the Americans. I admit > that lack of opportunity may be one of the reasons, of course. You cited the Spanish Civil War. I would think that would be comparable to the US Civil War.
From: Dave Smith on 12 Oct 2007 18:05 Jack Campin - bogus address wrote: > > >> Under the Bush administration, "Women's Lib" has been set > >> back at least fifty years. > > what rubbish. If you had actually been around in 1957 I don't see > > how you can say that. For instance, compare the number of women > > in the US Senate to the number in 1957. Or the number of women > > CEOs of American corporations. Or the number of Protestant > > ministers. > > Check the number of female doctors and lawyers today to those in > > 1957. > > Check out the number of women in shitty dead-end jobs with no > prospect of anything but a lifetime of poverty. They are what > the women's liberation movement was about. There are lots of men in those jobs too. At least they have the option of getting a better education that leads to a better job, something that was not open to them few decades ago.
From: Doesn't Frequently Mop on 13 Oct 2007 06:47
Make credence recognised that on Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:31:36 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen(a)cox.net> has scripted: >On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:28:01 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop ><deepfreudmoors(a)eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: >>Sounds like the Japanese. >> >>Why should we Anglo-saxons feel so bad about observing by race? >>Everyone else does it, and that doesn't make it wrong or right. It's >>just the way it is. > >Because it's not race being dealt with above, it's culture. >Americans of Japanese descent don't act like Japan's Japanese. >The problem comes from attributing the characteristics of a small >portion of a group to all the members of that group. So it's ok if you're being fair about it, and not just using stereotypes. I'm ok with that. I often use the adjective "swahili" to describe something strange or unfamiliar, coz I (and near everyone else) am unfamiliar with the people, language and culture. I have been accused of racism here buy using that, but I don't see why it's the case. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |