From: Frank F. Matthews on


Doesn't Frequently Mop wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:39:25 -0400,
> "Frank F. Matthews" <matthews942(a)comcast.net> has scripted:

>>Hatunen wrote:

>>>>Sounds like the Japanese.

>>>>Why should we Anglo-saxons feel so bad about observing by race?
>>>>Everyone else does it, and that doesn't make it wrong or right. It's
>>>>just the way it is.

>>>Because it's not race being dealt with above, it's culture.
>>>Americans of Japanese descent don't act like Japan's Japanese.
>>>The problem comes from attributing the characteristics of a small
>>>portion of a group to all the members of that group.
>>
>>Strangely some aspects transfer while others do not. It was an
>>interesting feature of the War documentary on US public TV recently that
>>many of the citizens of Japanese decent felt much stronger loyalty and
>>responsibility to the US government that had imprisoned then and their
>>families than was usual in the broad population. Yet the racist
>>attitudes of Japan appear to have died quickly.

> I have no idea just what you are trying to say here, but the Japanese
> have racism sewed well and truly into the fabric of their culture.

> Try spending some time there and you'll soon know that you are not
> equal.

The point is that when people move some characteristics deemed racial or
cultural transfer for a while and some do not.

In any case I see no characteristics stable enough that I would view
them as racial. The racism of the Japanese clearly appears cultural and
not racial.


From: Dave Smith on
"Frank F. Matthews" wrote:
>
> >>Check out the number of women in shitty dead-end jobs with no
> >>prospect of anything but a lifetime of poverty. They are what
> >>the women's liberation movement was about.
>
> > There are lots of men in those jobs too. At least they have the option of
> > getting a better education that leads to a better job, something that was
> > not open to them few decades ago.
>
> Few decades is a bit excessive. Women have been moving into broad
> fields of higher education for a long while. At least since my mother's
> time about seven decades ago. Today they are ordinary in most areas of
> higher education and have been for at least three decades.


In the 50s and 60s there were very few women in management and professional
jobs. There were a lot of women teachers but almost all principals and
superintendents were males. Employment equity become more of an issue in
the 70s.
From: Doesn't Frequently Mop on
Make credence recognised that on Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:55:40 -0400,
"Frank F. Matthews" <matthews942(a)comcast.net> has scripted:

>In any case I see no characteristics stable enough that I would view
>them as racial. The racism of the Japanese clearly appears cultural and
>not racial.

It's just the same thing, isn't it?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
From: Hatunen on
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:18:08 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors(a)eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:55:40 -0400,
>"Frank F. Matthews" <matthews942(a)comcast.net> has scripted:
>
>>In any case I see no characteristics stable enough that I would view
>>them as racial. The racism of the Japanese clearly appears cultural and
>>not racial.
>
>It's just the same thing, isn't it?

Not at all. "Racial" gnerally refers to characteristics
determined by heredity, dark skin, all that sort of thing.
"Cultural" refers to social things, arts, foods, sports,
religion, and all.

I've known Jamaican Black people who were educated in England,
and they simply didn't understand American Black culture. Blacks
who have grown up in Paris are very different from Blacks who
have grown up in The Islands or in the USA. Acout the only thing
they share is dark skin colore, and even that is not a sure
signal; the blackest man I ever knew was a co-worker who was a
Dravidian from India.



--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Hatunen on
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:03:49 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavidsmith(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Hatunen wrote:
>
>> >Perhaps they took a lesson from the US. Americans have invaded Canada
>> >several times.
>>
>> Save for the War of 1812 (and the Revolution), the American
>> government has never invaded Canada. Small groups of private
>> citizens and non-citizens have, in the 19th century, attempted to
>> invade Canada, with rather poor results.
>
>And sometimes they were large groups, and done so with the knowledge and
>approval of the US government, as in the Fenian raids after the Civil War.
>Then there were the threats and intimidation over the Alaskan border.
>>
>> Americans moved into the Mexican state of Texas and then led
>> >a fight for independence.
>>
>> You got me on that one. But that doesn't make us worse than the
>> Europeans.
>
>No it doesn't make you worse than the Europeans, just not any better.

I don't think I ever claimed that. My position has always been
that people are people.

>ou
>spoke about "The Europeans displayed their culture in 1914 and again in
>1936 (Spanish civil war, a most cultural affair), and 1935 (Italy invades
>Ethiopia, apparently to help the Ethipians learn to appreciate opera), and
>let's not neglect all the European support for Hitler's anti-semitism,
>shall we?. " Given the US civil war and wars against its neighbours, the US
>holds no moral high ground.

Nor hacve I claimed it. All I did was respone to a claim about
the cultural superiority of Europeans. Since you don't seem to be
European I'm not clear on why you are so defensive.

>> >While there was
>> >anti-Semitism across all of Europe for centuries, the US treatment of its
>> >black citizens and the natives hardly puts it on the moral high ground.
>>
>> I didn't say it did. What I said is that Europeans don't have a
>> claim to that high moral and cultural ground either.
>
>Nor does the US.

I think you are one of those knee-jerk Canadians who will take
any opportuntiy for an excuse to argue with an American.

>
>
>>
>> >And
>> >lets not forget that little conflict between the north and the south.
>>
>> I'm not sure wehre that fits in here. In any case, I suspect
>> Europeans have gratuitously killed millions of more people over
>> the last couple of centuries than have the Americans. I admit
>> that lack of opportunity may be one of the reasons, of course.
>
>You cited the Spanish Civil War. I would think that would be comparable to
>the US Civil War.

Actually, it wasn't at all like the American Civil War. Just look
at the root causes of each. As for millions of people, the
American Civil War didn't manage to kill even one million people.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *