From: Hatunen on
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:37:43 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavidsmith(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Hatunen wrote:
>
>>
>> >spoke about "The Europeans displayed their culture in 1914 and again in
>> >1936 (Spanish civil war, a most cultural affair), and 1935 (Italy invades
>> >Ethiopia, apparently to help the Ethipians learn to appreciate opera), and
>> >let's not neglect all the European support for Hitler's anti-semitism,
>> >shall we?. " Given the US civil war and wars against its neighbours, the US
>> >holds no moral high ground.
>>
>> Nor hacve I claimed it. All I did was respone to a claim about
>> the cultural superiority of Europeans. Since you don't seem to be
>> European I'm not clear on why you are so defensive.
>>
>> >> >While there was
>> >> >anti-Semitism across all of Europe for centuries, the US treatment of its
>> >> >black citizens and the natives hardly puts it on the moral high ground.
>> >>
>> >> I didn't say it did. What I said is that Europeans don't have a
>> >> claim to that high moral and cultural ground either.
>> >
>> >Nor does the US.
>>
>> I think you are one of those knee-jerk Canadians who will take
>> any opportuntiy for an excuse to argue with an American.
>
>
>In that case I should point again to the remark you made about the examples
>of European culture, like 1914 and the Spanish Civil War. I am not saying
>that there is not culture in the US. There are a number of musical venues
>where they perform operas and classical music. There are lots of good
>French restaurants, Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants.


"Culture" is, of course, a word far broader than a description
of operat or symphony attendance.
>
>> >You cited the Spanish Civil War. I would think that would be comparable to
>> >the US Civil War.
>>
>> Actually, it wasn't at all like the American Civil War. Just look
>> at the root causes of each. As for millions of people, the
>> American Civil War didn't manage to kill even one million people.
>
>There were roughly 620,000 deaths in the American Civil War, compared to
>500,000 in the Spanish Civil War. I am not sure the exact causes of the
>civil wars is relevant, or foreign involvement. They both happened, and
>when you look at the various countries in the world and the number of wars
>they have fought in and the number they instigated, the US is at or near
>the head of the pack. That is not anti Americanism or an excuse to argue
>with an America. It's just plain fact.

I'm thinking more about the Nazi death camps and the Soviet
purges.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Dave Smith on
Hatunen wrote:

> >> >Nor does the US.
> >>
> >> I think you are one of those knee-jerk Canadians who will take
> >> any opportuntiy for an excuse to argue with an American.
> >
> >
> >In that case I should point again to the remark you made about the examples
> >of European culture, like 1914 and the Spanish Civil War. I am not saying
> >that there is not culture in the US. There are a number of musical venues
> >where they perform operas and classical music. There are lots of good
> >French restaurants, Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants.
>
> "Culture" is, of course, a word far broader than a description
> of operat or symphony attendance.


Okay..... you have that gun culture. And thanks for rap music music, the
ultimate oxymoron, and bands like the Archies and Monkees. Let's not forget
McDonalds, Burger King and WalMart.


> >> >You cited the Spanish Civil War. I would think that would be comparable to
> >> >the US Civil War.
> >>
> >> Actually, it wasn't at all like the American Civil War. Just look
> >> at the root causes of each. As for millions of people, the
> >> American Civil War didn't manage to kill even one million people.
> >
> >There were roughly 620,000 deaths in the American Civil War, compared to
> >500,000 in the Spanish Civil War. I am not sure the exact causes of the
> >civil wars is relevant, or foreign involvement. They both happened, and
> >when you look at the various countries in the world and the number of wars
> >they have fought in and the number they instigated, the US is at or near
> >the head of the pack. That is not anti Americanism or an excuse to argue
> >with an America. It's just plain fact.
>
> I'm thinking more about the Nazi death camps and the Soviet
> purges.

Oh. You're thinking about the Nazi Death Camps and the Soviet purges???
That is odd because you kept referring specifically to the Spanish Civil
War. So now you are looking at acts of genocide grander in scale that the
American wars against the native people and the KKK.
From: Frank F. Matthews on


Dave Smith wrote:

> "Frank F. Matthews" wrote:
>
>
>>>There were roughly 620,000 deaths in the American Civil War, compared to
>>>500,000 in the Spanish Civil War. I am not sure the exact causes of the
>>>civil wars is relevant, or foreign involvement. They both happened, and
>>>when you look at the various countries in the world and the number of wars
>>>they have fought in and the number they instigated, the US is at or near
>>>the head of the pack. That is not anti Americanism or an excuse to argue
>>>with an America. It's just plain fact.
>>
>>Not a prayer. Either Napoleon or the Brits in India are way in the lead
>>without looking at the other involvement of the respective countries.
>
>
>
> Okay, then you can be number three, which is near the top.

You want some more candidates? The Muslim Caliphates? The Mongols
Khans? Shall we continue to explore history?

From: Hatunen on
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:55:50 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavidsmith(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Hatunen wrote:
>
>> >> >Nor does the US.
>> >>
>> >> I think you are one of those knee-jerk Canadians who will take
>> >> any opportuntiy for an excuse to argue with an American.
>> >
>> >
>> >In that case I should point again to the remark you made about the examples
>> >of European culture, like 1914 and the Spanish Civil War. I am not saying
>> >that there is not culture in the US. There are a number of musical venues
>> >where they perform operas and classical music. There are lots of good
>> >French restaurants, Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants.
>>
>> "Culture" is, of course, a word far broader than a description
>> of operat or symphony attendance.
>
>
>Okay..... you have that gun culture. And thanks for rap music music, the
>ultimate oxymoron, and bands like the Archies and Monkees. Let's not forget
>McDonalds, Burger King and WalMart.

You really don't understand the word "culture", do you?

>
>> >> >You cited the Spanish Civil War. I would think that would be comparable to
>> >> >the US Civil War.
>> >>
>> >> Actually, it wasn't at all like the American Civil War. Just look
>> >> at the root causes of each. As for millions of people, the
>> >> American Civil War didn't manage to kill even one million people.
>> >
>> >There were roughly 620,000 deaths in the American Civil War, compared to
>> >500,000 in the Spanish Civil War. I am not sure the exact causes of the
>> >civil wars is relevant, or foreign involvement. They both happened, and
>> >when you look at the various countries in the world and the number of wars
>> >they have fought in and the number they instigated, the US is at or near
>> >the head of the pack. That is not anti Americanism or an excuse to argue
>> >with an America. It's just plain fact.
>>
>> I'm thinking more about the Nazi death camps and the Soviet
>> purges.
>
>Oh. You're thinking about the Nazi Death Camps and the Soviet purges???
>That is odd because you kept referring specifically to the Spanish Civil
>War. So now you are looking at acts of genocide grander in scale that the
>American wars against the native people and the KKK.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
From: Hatunen on
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:55:50 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavidsmith(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Hatunen wrote:
>
>> >> >Nor does the US.
>> >>
>> >> I think you are one of those knee-jerk Canadians who will take
>> >> any opportuntiy for an excuse to argue with an American.
>> >
>> >
>> >In that case I should point again to the remark you made about the examples
>> >of European culture, like 1914 and the Spanish Civil War. I am not saying
>> >that there is not culture in the US. There are a number of musical venues
>> >where they perform operas and classical music. There are lots of good
>> >French restaurants, Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants.
>>
>> "Culture" is, of course, a word far broader than a description
>> of operat or symphony attendance.
>
>
>Okay..... you have that gun culture. And thanks for rap music music, the
>ultimate oxymoron, and bands like the Archies and Monkees. Let's not forget
>McDonalds, Burger King and WalMart.

Sigh. You don't really undestand the broader meaning of the word
"culture", do you?

>
>
>> >> >You cited the Spanish Civil War. I would think that would be comparable to
>> >> >the US Civil War.
>> >>
>> >> Actually, it wasn't at all like the American Civil War. Just look
>> >> at the root causes of each. As for millions of people, the
>> >> American Civil War didn't manage to kill even one million people.
>> >
>> >There were roughly 620,000 deaths in the American Civil War, compared to
>> >500,000 in the Spanish Civil War. I am not sure the exact causes of the
>> >civil wars is relevant, or foreign involvement. They both happened, and
>> >when you look at the various countries in the world and the number of wars
>> >they have fought in and the number they instigated, the US is at or near
>> >the head of the pack. That is not anti Americanism or an excuse to argue
>> >with an America. It's just plain fact.
>>
>> I'm thinking more about the Nazi death camps and the Soviet
>> purges.
>
>Oh. You're thinking about the Nazi Death Camps and the Soviet purges???
>That is odd because you kept referring specifically to the Spanish Civil
>War.

I mentioned it more or less in passing along with Italy's
invasion of Ethiopa. Some else, you I think, keeps mentioning the
Spanish Civil War, which was pretty brutal, whihc seems to be the
way of civil wars.

>So now you are looking at acts of genocide grander in scale that the
>American wars against the native people and the KKK.

You're just being argumentative.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen(a)cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *