From: Mxsmanic on 18 Jul 2006 10:55
> For example, formulations such as "me and Antony" are now not only
> universally understood but also don't grate on very many people as being
> 'wrong' - I'd say they have effectively /become/ grammatically acceptable.
"Me and Antony" was never incorrect.
> In a similar way (and perhaps this is a change to be mourned a little) the
> gap of meaning between "which" and "that" in everyday usage has narrowed
> to near-invisibility.
Not among people fluent in English.
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
From: barney2 on 18 Jul 2006 11:32
In article <eitpb2leojutrk6l2kcsaonf0nr828u3fn(a)4ax.com>,
mxsmanic(a)gmail.com (Mxsmanic) wrote:
> *From:* Mxsmanic <mxsmanic(a)gmail.com>
> *Date:* Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:55:52 +0200
> barney2(a)cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
> > For example, formulations such as "me and Antony" are now not only
> > universally understood but also don't grate on very many people as
> > being 'wrong' - I'd say they have effectively /become/ grammatically
> > acceptable.
> "Me and Antony" was never incorrect.
I meant in the context "Me and Antony went to the store".
> > In a similar way (and perhaps this is a change to be mourned a
> > little) the gap of meaning between "which" and "that" in everyday
> > usage has narrowed to near-invisibility.
> Not among people fluent in English.
Do you suggest that somebody who does not know the difference in meaning
is therefore not fluent in English?
From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) on 18 Jul 2006 11:38
The Reid wrote:
> Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
>>Even "primitive" drumming is considered music. And don't
>>forget John Cage - who "wrote" one work that consists of
>>nothing but a specified period of silence!
> but isn't that total pretentious bollox?
> I'd be interested in the musicians' views.
I'm not sure, since I'm not a John Cage fan - so far as I'm
concerned, most of what he wrote fits that description. ;-)
(However, the acquaintance who "sang" the previously
mentioned work that involved kitchen gadgets apparently saw
merit in his work.)
From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) on 18 Jul 2006 11:48
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
>>And just how, pray tell, never having met me - thus having
>>no conceivable means of acquiring first-hand knowledge of my
>>"conditioning" and "behavior" - could you possibly determine
> Few people are completely independent of recognizable behavioral
That's probably true - however, never having met me, to
which "behavioral patterns" do you refer? The point I was
making is that, since you've never even SEEN me, you have
absolutely no basis for assessing my behavior! (Other than
your own fertile imagination - never a very good standard
for judging the real world.)
From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) on 18 Jul 2006 11:58
Dave Frightens Me wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:46:51 +0100, this_address_is_for_spam(a)yahoo.com
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>The Reid <dontuse(a)fell-walker.co.uk> wrote:
>>>Following up to David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of
>>>besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
>>>>>fixed tone? surely that's not a requirement,
>>>>No it isn't. Tone, fixed or otherwise, isn't even a requirement.
>>>I'm not sure I understand and I'm wondering if I will regret
>>Well, music doesn't necessarily have specific pitch. Drumming for
>>example. I think that what DFM meant by 'fixed tone' was music that had
>>pitches set roughly around specific frequencies. That's not a universal
> Well, at least I went out on a limb enough to try define it!
> I actually would say the fixed pitches are a requirement for music, as
> anything else would be just a soundscape, which would be impossible to
> render in anyway on paper.
"Impossible" using Western notation, certainly. However, a
goodly portion of the globe produces music that does not use
the same tonal intervals we do. Those pitches may be
"fixed" also (although most Western ears cannot discern the
precise intervals). I'm sure Indian and Arabic music is not
all improvisation - what kind of notation do they use to
write it down for others to perform?