Budget airlines in child fare price scam
in [UK Air Travel]
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From: Mister Niceguy on 9 Aug 2010 14:46 alex <alexstrolls(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in news:b5a75833-2e58-46b1-a9a4-3fb01cf6ad3e(a)x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com: > On 8 Aug, 10:28, Mister Niceguy <mister.nice...(a)rocketmail.com> wrote: >> Roland Perry <rol...(a)perry.co.uk> wrote >> innews:5OAZ8UMtFlXMFA1c(a)perry.co. > uk: >> >> >> >> >> >> > In message <Xns9DCD5DB96697Fniceguyonzet...(a)94.75.214.90>, at >> > 08:12:38 on Sat, 7 Aug 2010, Mister Niceguy >> > <mister.nice...(a)rocketmail.com> remarked: >> >>>>I really hate screaming Mothers demanding that people are >> >>>>reseated >> to >> >>>>make a block free for their brood. Particularly as they seem to >> >>>>make >> a >> >>>>point of turning up last when all the seats have been taken. >> >> >>> Which is odd when every airline (even the low-costs) board >> >>> families first! I suspect these groups are late because of >> >>> general dis-organisation and an inability to get the all the kids >> >>> to do what they are told when it comes to negotiating their way >> >>> through the departure terminal. >> >> >>You guys are unbelievable. �What's happened to society when it >> >>doesn' > t >> >>treasure its children? How will these kids grow up - knowing that >> their >> >>sheer presence is resented as an inconvenience. >> >> > But it's not their sheer presence that's a problem - I'm happy for >> them >> > to board first, for example, and travel in a well-behaved fashion. >> > I don't even min babes-in-arms being free. >> >> >> A few extra seconds of your time makes a world of difference to >> >>parents who are having real difficulty getting youngsters through >> >>cumbersome airport logistics - possibly for the first time. >> >> > It's not extra seconds at stake, but the extra hand luggage and >> > demanding to be seated together even if last on the plane. >> >> I've been in that situation. Child needing to do toilet stuff, >> wetting themselves at the airport, baby needing a feed etc etc etc. >> It is very hard to be at the call to board at exactly the right time >> when children have bodily needs. Fortunately, people have always >> moved before being asked, as indeed I would if travelling without >> childen, knowing what that family has just suffered. >> >> >> >> >>Families are boarded first (or passengers thus re-arranged) so they >> can >> >>sit together. �Yes. �Or would you rather have a 2 year old next to > you >> >>and their mum or dad 10 rows back? It's for your benefit as much as >> >>theirs. >> >> > Precisely, get there first for these perfectly acceptable >> > concessions. It was the late arrivers that started this discussion. >> >> But do you think they're arriving late deliberately? I doubt it. >> >> >>And all this grumpiness about buggies? Would you say the same for >> >>wheelchairs, zimmer frames and medical apparatus? >> >> > As I'm not grumpy about buggies (but it helps if families don't >> > leave them behind on the apron when they get off), it's a >> > non-question. >> >> Again do you think it's deliberate? We nearly did that the first time >> we took a buggy on the plane. I don't think we were told about where >> we'd collect it and certainly didn't expect it to be on the apron. >> I've seen parents come off the plane looking shell-shocked after >> comforting a child who has reacted badly to re-pressurisation and is >> in no fit state to remember everything an efficient traveller would >> remember. Show some understanding, please. >> >> >>Jeez, I'm glad I've never had to board my family with you. >> >> > You'd be fine if you got there on time, and then stopped your child >> > kicking me in the small of the back for three hours. >> >> I'd like to see you manage a family in the perfect way you expect >> from others. > > I don't really understand your point here. You're going on about it > all being accidental, but at the same time talking about it being a > near-inevitable byproduct of having kids. If it's to be expected, then > expect it. Don't inflict it on everyone else and take the attitude > that they're in the wrong for feeling put out. Do you mean me? I'm saying that parents do so much to try and get their children through the flight experience to the extent that they can be in tears from exhaustion. And I've seen mothers pushed over the edge when a critical lone traveller tells them that they're children aren't behaving well enough. All this to make the lone traveller's journey as pleasant as possible. Even with all the inconvenience of having to share a space with children, the lone traveller is in a much better position to help themselves than the exhausted mother. Now I read you comment again, I don't think I understand your point. But I hope I've made mine clearer.
From: Mister Niceguy on 9 Aug 2010 14:52 pete <no_one_you_know(a)notthisaddress.com> wrote in news:slrni5ve9n.vfu.no_one_you_know(a)corv.local: > On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 20:16:28 +0000 (UTC), Mister Niceguy wrote: >> Roland Perry <roland(a)perry.co.uk> wrote in news:I7VFh9s6+oXMFAA5 >> @perry.co.uk: >> >>> If you'd travelled with me you would - we used to get praise from >> other >>> passengers, including remarks like "we didn't even realise the was a >>> child in the next row". >> >> Well you're a natural, then. Or lucky. We think we did pretty well >> but we never did figure out how to handle a child who hated sitting >> in their seat for more than a few minutes. Under the circumstances we >> think we did very well, but that didn't stop the scowls from those >> who didn't (or couldn't). > > Well that appears to be your problem. You don't handle "a child who > hated sitting still ...." you train them. Your overriding > responsibillity as a parent is to imbue your children with a set of > values, behaviours, expectations and the ability to interact with > others in a considerate and non-selfish way. I bring my children up with precisely those values. And they grew into very compentent adults, without any problems and, yes, a lot of tolerance and consideration for others. And believe me, some children just won't respond to the sitting-still training. And if you're advocating beating it out of them or other such punishment, then please know that's not one of my values. Not for being restless, anyway. It only seems to be in Britain that people think children should be seen and not heard. And, thankfully, that attitude is slowly changing.
From: Mister Niceguy on 9 Aug 2010 14:55 Roland Perry <roland(a)perry.co.uk> wrote in news:u1ysSwan77XMFAVS(a)perry.co.uk: > In message <Xns9DCED86DC25DCniceguyonzetnet(a)94.75.214.90>, at 20:16:28 > on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, Mister Niceguy <mister.niceguy(a)rocketmail.com> > remarked: >>> her child (who stayed behind) spent most of the trip jabbing me in the >>> ribs with his elbow while he played shoot-up games on the in-flight >>> entertainment. >>> >>> Another time, maybe she could reserve an aisle seat if it matters that >>> much. Grumpy? Yes, a bit; but I've seen a lot worse. >> >>Well that's a bad experience I'll concede. But not one I've ever had. >>I've had a fat bloke next to me, overlapping the armrest before. That >>was testing. > > Especially in economy, it's not unusual to have "wider" people > (sometimes it's just their frame rather than weight) taking 100% > possession of the armrests. Yes, I once had someone who wanted to raise the armrests in that scenario. I said I'd rather the armrest stayed down!!! > And many years ago (before I had children of my own) I was once sat next > to a small child who didn't appear to be able to be stopped from picking > food off my lunch tray, as well as her own. That actually sounds rather cute. But I guess we have the right to eat our own food! Despite everything I've posted elsewhere, I would certainly talk with a parent - considerately - if I needed their help in reining in their child's behaviour. I would not do so in a critical way, though. Maybe that's the difference.
From: pete on 9 Aug 2010 17:44 On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 18:52:10 +0000 (UTC), Mister Niceguy wrote: > pete <no_one_you_know(a)notthisaddress.com> wrote in > news:slrni5ve9n.vfu.no_one_you_know(a)corv.local: > >> On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 20:16:28 +0000 (UTC), Mister Niceguy wrote: >>> Roland Perry <roland(a)perry.co.uk> wrote in news:I7VFh9s6+oXMFAA5 >>> @perry.co.uk: >>> >>>> If you'd travelled with me you would - we used to get praise from >>> other >>>> passengers, including remarks like "we didn't even realise the was a >>>> child in the next row". >>> >>> Well you're a natural, then. Or lucky. We think we did pretty well >>> but we never did figure out how to handle a child who hated sitting >>> in their seat for more than a few minutes. Under the circumstances we >>> think we did very well, but that didn't stop the scowls from those >>> who didn't (or couldn't). >> >> Well that appears to be your problem. You don't handle "a child who >> hated sitting still ...." you train them. Your overriding >> responsibillity as a parent is to imbue your children with a set of >> values, behaviours, expectations and the ability to interact with >> others in a considerate and non-selfish way. > > I bring my children up with precisely those values. And they grew into very > compentent adults, without any problems and, yes, a lot of tolerance and > consideration for others. > > And believe me, some children just won't respond to the sitting-still > training. And if you're advocating beating it out of them or other such > punishment, then please know that's not one of my values. Not for being > restless, anyway. It seems you're confusing effort with results. The inconvenient truth is that some individuals simply don't have much in the way of parenting skills, even if they would like to - which isn't a given. Just like some people are better or worse drivers than others. It's not just a case of having the correct training (though that helps, but is often lacking), but also having the right temperament. The amount of effort a person puts into training their children doesn't matter a jot. It's whether they have the talent to produce the results. That's all that's important. -- www.thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/page2.php
From: Mister Niceguy on 11 Aug 2010 07:28
pete <no_one_you_know(a)notthisaddress.com> wrote in news:slrni60tl6.4pg.no_one_you_know(a)corv.local: > On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 18:52:10 +0000 (UTC), Mister Niceguy wrote: >> pete <no_one_you_know(a)notthisaddress.com> wrote in >> news:slrni5ve9n.vfu.no_one_you_know(a)corv.local: >> >>> On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 20:16:28 +0000 (UTC), Mister Niceguy wrote: >>>> Roland Perry <roland(a)perry.co.uk> wrote in news:I7VFh9s6+oXMFAA5 >>>> @perry.co.uk: >>>> >>>>> If you'd travelled with me you would - we used to get praise from >>>> other >>>>> passengers, including remarks like "we didn't even realise the was >>>>> a child in the next row". >>>> >>>> Well you're a natural, then. Or lucky. We think we did pretty well >>>> but we never did figure out how to handle a child who hated sitting >>>> in their seat for more than a few minutes. Under the circumstances >>>> we think we did very well, but that didn't stop the scowls from >>>> those who didn't (or couldn't). >>> >>> Well that appears to be your problem. You don't handle "a child who >>> hated sitting still ...." you train them. Your overriding >>> responsibillity as a parent is to imbue your children with a set of >>> values, behaviours, expectations and the ability to interact with >>> others in a considerate and non-selfish way. >> >> I bring my children up with precisely those values. And they grew >> into very compentent adults, without any problems and, yes, a lot of >> tolerance and consideration for others. >> >> And believe me, some children just won't respond to the sitting-still >> training. And if you're advocating beating it out of them or other >> such punishment, then please know that's not one of my values. Not >> for being restless, anyway. > > It seems you're confusing effort with results. The inconvenient truth > is that some individuals simply don't have much in the way of > parenting skills, even if they would like to - which isn't a given. True. > Just like some people are better or worse drivers than others. It's > not just a case of having the correct training (though that helps, but > is often lacking), but also having the right temperament. The amount > of effort a person puts into training their children doesn't matter a > jot. It's whether they have the talent to produce the results. That's > all that's important. Well I came into this debate defending parents who seem to be taking a broadside of blame for inconveniencing travellers through wanting to sit together and/or leaving buggies in the wrong places. I'm trying to argue that with the best will in the world, parents can't always be as efficient as my correspondents would desire. Having been guilty of both "crimes" myself, I sympathise with parents who also incur the wrath of people here. Getting a family through an air travel experience is hard work sometimes, and may things can and do go wrong, even for the best parents in the world. |