BA overbooking - a bad experience
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From: js on 7 Mar 2007 13:42 On Mar 7, 10:31 am, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > On 7 Mar 2007 08:40:44 -0800 'js' > posted this onto rec.travel.air: > > > > > > >On Mar 7, 8:20 am, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > >> On 7 Mar 2007 08:12:05 -0800 'js' > >> posted this onto rec.travel.air: > > >> >On Mar 7, 3:33 am, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > >> >> On 6 Mar 2007 18:54:35 -0800 'Tchiowa' > >> >> posted this onto rec.travel.air: > > >> >That is too funny - you are a card. > > >> >> That is nonsense as I've explained several times. > >> >> You do not understand how business models and marketing work. > > >> >> >> Queues at check-in continue to be a > >> >> >> problem for many people unless you have BC or FC tickets. Narrow seats > >> >> >> are another. Overweight or oversize passengers are another. Restless > >> >> >> kids and slobs are another. > > >> >> >You named 4 problems. 3 of them are solved by buying a higher class > >> >> >ticket. So the solution is there. *You* choose not to accept that > >> >> >solution then complain about the result of *your* decision. > > >> >> My point is that those problems really shouldn't exist in any class. > > >> >"That is nonsense as I've explained several times. You do not > >> >understand how business models and marketing work." > > >> >> That they do is a direct result of the deregulation of airlines and > >> >> the dumbing down of their business models to make flying accessible > >> >> to every jerk who has $25 in his/her pocket. > > >> >"That is nonsense as I've explained several times. You do not > >> >understand how business models and marketing work." > > >> >Too funny. > > >> Can't you think of anything original to post yourself? > >> Copying/posting my own comments does nowt for your credibility.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Even funnier. > > >You are a card. You profess this superior knowledge of markets and > >yet miss the point entirely. > > I professed nothing of the sort Oh but you have.... > but clearly I understand how markets > work a lot more than you. See? > You also have a reading and comprehension > problem and you have no point. hehehe > >Deregulation INCREASES the competitiveness of markets by reducing > >barriers to entry and increasing product differentiation. > > In practice it does little of the latter as I pointed out earlier. Gee - explain Ryanair..... > What actually happens is that the herd instinct takes effect. > One or more market leaders emerge and everybody else copies them > for fear of being left high and dry. Too funny. > Same thing happens in almost every other industry. Another uninformed remark. Too funny. > Study how new car models from different manufacturers all start > to carry the same design features year on year. In Europe, check > to see how they're all pushing cars with diesel engines. etc etc. Huh? Sure - an H3 sharees the design feutures of a Prius...sure it does. Everything from size, shape, drive train, and fuel economy....and of course, price. Your Yugo and my Benz - not much difference. Nah..... > This is pure herd instinct in action and it causes a race to the > bottom. Maybe you missed that we now have airlines like BA and > others slashing staff, reducing services, cramming more seats into > planes to compete with low-budget airlines. And I viewed it as product market matching. And of course, it explains first class, business class, and premium economy differntiated products. That's it, we have a singular undifferentiated product in the airline industry, just like the auto industry...that's your view? Goodness. > All this so they can chase joe sixpack with $25 in his pocket. Not in the seat next to me. hehehehe Are you done making a fool of yourself yet? js
From: hummingbird on 7 Mar 2007 17:11 On 7 Mar 2007 09:13:56 -0800 'Jim Davis' posted this onto rec.travel.air: >X-No-Archive: Yes > >On Mar 7, 5:33 am, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: >> On 6 Mar 2007 18:54:35 -0800 'Tchiowa' >> posted this onto rec.travel.air: >> >> >On Mar 6, 7:15 pm, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: >> >> On 5 Mar 2007 16:51:26 -0800 'Tchiowa' >> >> posted this onto rec.travel.air: > >> >You did. You *CHOSE* Economy Class. >> >> Let's not play sematics. I selected Economy but that does not mean >> that I like everything about it. In one sense, Economy is a dump class >> for those who are unable/unwilling to pay the much higher prices of >> BC or FC, which themselves do not guarantee or necessarily provide >> the actual conditions desired. >> I have already said that there are plenty of wealthy slobs who usually >> fly BC/FC. Wealth is not a good guide to a person's social manners or >> that of their kids or entourage. >> >> >> My original post was about a range of issues - seat size, overbooking, >> >> long queue to check-in, pressure put on me to accept an alternative >> >> route home, an adjacent passenger who was overflowing into my seat >> >> space and sitting on a plane for two hours before take-off while the >> >> captain lied to passengers about the reason. >> >> >> Did you miss all that? > >You're living in the past. Air Travel isn't the comfortable and >pampered travel style that it was years ago. Those days are gone. There is some truth in it. BUT that does not make the current trend (fashion?) the right way to go. Airlines should be advancing customer satisfaction of their product, not stripping it away. The simple fact that growing numbers of travellers are sick of being crammed into alu tubes like cattle must tell us something. And what have those who argue that deregulation has been a good thing for the travelling public got to say? >> Many of the problems which I and many others suffer from could >> be resolved by airlines re-arranging their cabins a little. Perhaps a >> cabin section called 'quiet cabin' where kids were guaranteed *not* >> to be seated. Perhaps a slightly wider seat to accomodate larger- >> than-average people. Perhaps a more efficient check-in facility to >> reduce queues and you have a 10-20% premium for ticket prices. >> The airlines could explain the conditions to people when booking. >> >> So perhaps my 430 sterling ticket on BA would have cost 500 >> Such a cabin would attract me more than a standard BC seat. > >This may attract you, but it doesn't attract the majority of today's >air travelers. They want cheap & easy, and "easy" is negotiable with >them. Some agree with this opinion, others do not. IMV there is still a strong demand for air travel where passengers are treated like people, not cattle. The fact that BC/FC seats are often heavily booked tells me that there is a demand to get away from the crowd at the back of the plane. And the new "majority" you speak of are those who will buy anything as long as the price is low. They buy at last one of everything that's offered to them. But I don't think we should be dictated to by the inarticulate masses. >> >> You see, what the airlines have done is to create a business model >> >> designed to maximise their passenger numbers and revenues but have >> >> done little or nothing to deal with the many irritations that >> >> passengers suffer because of it. >> >> >Dealing with these "irritations" cost money and those of you who are >> >primarily concerned with cost won't pay the airline to deal with them. >> >> That is nonsense as I've explained several times. >> You do not understand how business models and marketing work. > >He's right. The airlines won't spend extra time & money on these >things if the majority won't pay to support them. A circular argument. The airlines are like any other business, someone sets the stage and all the others follow by herd instinct. It's doubtful if they even bother to stop and think of alternatives. What we do not get is substantially differing standards on different airlines and that confirms the herd instinct is in play, as always. >> >> Queues at check-in continue to be a >> >> problem for many people unless you have BC or FC tickets. Narrow seats >> >> are another. Overweight or oversize passengers are another. Restless >> >> kids and slobs are another. >> >> >You named 4 problems. 3 of them are solved by buying a higher class >> >ticket. So the solution is there. *You* choose not to accept that >> >solution then complain about the result of *your* decision. >> >> My point is that those problems really shouldn't exist in any class. >> That they do is a direct result of the deregulation of airlines and >> the dumbing down of their business models to make flying accessible >> to every jerk who has $25 in his/her pocket. > >Today, those "jerks" are making up the majority of air travelers. >Guess what? We loose. Personally, I deal with it. Maybe those jerks now make up the majority of passengers because the airlines have modified their business model to suit them. Those of us who continue to want acceptable travel are being left high and dry. I don't know how you deal with a fellow passenger overflowing into your seat space for 12-15 hours. >> >Somewhat of a snob, I see. You don't want to fly with the "riff-raff". >> >> I am no snob but otherwise you are correct. > >> Tell me, who does want to fly with the riff-raff? Other riff-raff? > >The airlines promise to get to from A to B safely. Who, your >traveling companions are is not their concern as long as they abide by >the basic rules and pay the fee. Indeed. But one of my arguments in this thread is that the airlines operate under a very bias contract because govts are too frightened to step in and set out some higher standards. >> >I hate to say it, but if you look at your posts and the things you've >> >said this "every slob with $25" kind of describes *you*. >> >> Rotfl. >> You are just posting tripe. > >No - I think he has a point there. A pointless point without merit methinks. >> >> >> As a friend said to me some while ago "you might upgrade from economy >> >> >> to FC to get away from screaming shitty kids and slobs, only to find >> >> >> that you're seated close to a FC screaming shitty kid or a rich slob." >> >> >> >If your goal is to get away from people you think are inferior to you >> >> >("slobs" is the way you phrased it) then you need to buy your own >> >> >plane or quit flying. >> >> >> It's got nothing to do with people who I think are inferior to me. > >That seems to be the major subject in your posts. Only if you have a comprehension problem. >> >Not according to the things you have said. >> >> Indeed.
From: hummingbird on 7 Mar 2007 19:18 On 7 Mar 2007 10:42:36 -0800 'js' posted this onto rec.travel.air: >On Mar 7, 10:31 am, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: >> All this so they can chase joe sixpack with $25 in his pocket. >Not in the seat next to me. No of course not. The guy in the seat next to you is probably me, sitting next to a joe sixpack slob with $25 in his pocket and making a bloody nuisance of himself - ie you. >hehehehe You'll have to lay off drugs. They make you giggle like a little girl.
From: Tchiowa on 7 Mar 2007 19:44 On Mar 7, 6:33 pm, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > On 6 Mar 2007 18:54:35 -0800 'Tchiowa' > posted this onto rec.travel.air: > > >On Mar 6, 7:15 pm, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > >> On 5 Mar 2007 16:51:26 -0800 'Tchiowa' > >> posted this onto rec.travel.air: > > >> >You complained about specific things including size of the seat. I > >> >said that you had deliberately paid for a small seat. Others also > >> >pointed out that Business Class resolves this. Rather than admit that > >> >simple fact you now want to take about kids and slobs. Do you want a > >> >government policy forcing the airlines to gag and handcuff all kids? > > >> I bought a ticket from the short list of options offered to me. > > >Now you're trying to claim that Expedia doesn't show Business Class??? > > Certainly not. Where do you get that idea from? > FC, BC and Economy were offered to me. Economy Plus was not. So you *did* have a choice. And your choice was "Cheap". Now you complain about the direct results of your choice. > >> If you wish to describe that as "I chose a small seat* be my guest, > >> but it's a distortion of the actuality as most people would see. > > >You did. You *CHOSE* Economy Class. > > Let's not play sematics. I selected Economy but that does not mean > that I like everything about it. I didn't say that. I said it was your choice. You chose cost over service then complain about service. <snip> > >No, your suggestion was have the government run the airlines. > > I said nothing of the sort. Are you imagining things? You didn't ask for more government regulation???? > See the post by Brian in this thread about the extra cost of his BC > seats for his trip to Italy this summer. If you still claim that BC > seats are not considerably more expensive than Economy seats, then I > will have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about. > > >Similarly, the fact that you view the cost of Business Class to be a > >"large sum of money" > > "large sum of money" were your words not mine. Now you're lying. Your exact words were "I'm not sure what you mean by "better overall conditions" but paying large sums of money for a business seat (or even first class) does not guarantee that your flight will be either comfortable or peaceful, although I have always accepted that both classes of seat usually provide a wider seat." > I simply point out that BC seats are considerably more expensive. > A fact that you seem to have a problem understanding. Wrong. I acknowledged quite openly that they are more expensive. My statements were about your choice of words "large sums of money". Apparently you agree because now you choose to deny saying it. > >explains your view of the situation and provides > >further proof that you are one of the "Cost is King" consumers who are > >responsible for driving down the quality of service even as you whine > >about it. > > Not at all. This is a ridiculous analysis of my position. > > Of course cost is a factor with me as it is with many others but it is > not the only factor. Some while ago, I paid 585 sterling with Emirates > for a London-Bangkok round trip in the belief that it would be a > civilised flight (Emirates claim high standards). Emirates BC was > about 3-4 times the price. Although the problems on Emirates were > different to those I suffered on BA more recently, the BA trip was > only 430 sterling. I also flew London-Seville several months ago for > peanuts on Iberia and the flight was excellent. > > What that lot tells me is that ticket price is not the determining > factor and the problems are actually inherent in the airline business > models. What you get is a matter of luck more than airline judgement. No, what that lot says is that you won't pay the 2,000 or so for a Business Class ticket. You are too busy looking for "Cheap" then complaining about the direct results of your own decision. > I put it to you that one reason airlines have long check-in queues and > cram narrow seats into Economy class is to encourage people to upgrade > to much higher priced BC/FC seats, thereby raising revenues/profits. > But it will not guarantee a better quality of flight conditions. No, they do it because they are providing people with the level of service that they are paying for. Again, you seem to want more than you pay for. Your choice. > >> I would happily pay a 10-20% premium for a seat which guaranteed > >> me a wider seat (by ~4inches) and no slobs or screaming shitty kids > >> nearby. Nothing like this is on offer. > > >The service you ask for (wider seat and you get to choose who sits > >next to you) would cost the airline a whole lot more than 10-20% to > >provide. Are you willing to pay double or triple the cost? > > I have not said that I wish to choose who gets to sit next to me. Yes you did. You don't want to sit next to people that you consider inferior to you. "Slobs" I believe was what you called them. > Many of the problems which I and many others suffer from could > be resolved by airlines re-arranging their cabins a little. Perhaps a > cabin section called 'quiet cabin' where kids were guaranteed *not* > to be seated. And that costs money. > Perhaps a slightly wider seat to accomodate larger- than-average people. And that costs money. > Perhaps a more efficient check-in facility to > reduce queues and you have a 10-20% premium for ticket prices. No, you would have 100% premium. At least. > >Dealing with these "irritations" cost money and those of you who are > >primarily concerned with cost won't pay the airline to deal with them. > > That is nonsense as I've explained several times. > You do not understand how business models and marketing work. Apparenlty more than you do. > > >> Queues at check-in continue to be a > >> problem for many people unless you have BC or FC tickets. Narrow seats > >> are another. Overweight or oversize passengers are another. Restless > >> kids and slobs are another. > > >You named 4 problems. 3 of them are solved by buying a higher class > >ticket. So the solution is there. *You* choose not to accept that > >solution then complain about the result of *your* decision. > > My point is that those problems really shouldn't exist in any class. > That they do is a direct result of the deregulation of airlines Oooops. Back to demanding more regulation, are you? I thought you didn't call for that. > and the dumbing down of their business models to make flying accessible > to every jerk who has $25 in his/her pocket. I apologize. You don't call the people you consider inferior to you "slobs". You call them "jerks". > >> These problems are partly the result of deregulation of the market > >> which gave the airlines the go-ahead to dumb down their services > >> to transport every slob who has $25 in his/her pocket. > > >Somewhat of a snob, I see. You don't want to fly with the "riff-raff". > > I am no snob but otherwise you are correct. > Tell me, who does want to fly with the riff-raff? Other riff-raff? Elitism at it's best (worst).
From: js on 7 Mar 2007 20:22
On Mar 7, 4:18 pm, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > On 7 Mar 2007 10:42:36 -0800 'js' > posted this onto rec.travel.air: > > >On Mar 7, 10:31 am, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > >> All this so they can chase joe sixpack with $25 in his pocket. > >Not in the seat next to me. > > No of course not. The guy in the seat next to you is probably me, Nope - you don't fly upfront, remember. > sitting next to a joe sixpack slob with $25 in his pocket and making > a bloody nuisance of himself - ie you. > > >hehehehe > > You'll have to lay off drugs. They make you giggle like a little girl. Nope - but I will do something else.... |