BA overbooking - a bad experience
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From: Brian on 6 Mar 2007 21:33 On 5 Mar 2007 16:51:26 -0800, "Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >Business Class is more expensive than Economy, of course, >but it does not involved "large sums of money". Perhaps from the >perspective of someone whose primary goal is "cheap" that's the case. We're flying to Italy this summer. For 3 people, it's an extra $4500. We are flying business but the difference is not exactly a pittance.
From: Brian on 6 Mar 2007 21:37 On 5 Mar 2007 16:26:13 -0800, "js" <jonathansmith99(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >Well, Bob - though the pelvic girdle is not exactly circular, the >estimate is valid when BMI exceeds 30 and w/h is less than 0.8 or so. >Since we are talking about lard butts, that pretty much describes >them. And, that said, weight loss would improve that. > >I suppose had you been familiar with the basic etiology of obesity you >wouldn't have looked so foolish. > >Now, what exactly was your contribution? That's what I thought. > >js That's ridiculous and just isn't correct.
From: Tchiowa on 6 Mar 2007 21:54 On Mar 6, 7:15 pm, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: > On 5 Mar 2007 16:51:26 -0800 'Tchiowa' > posted this onto rec.travel.air: > >You complained about specific things including size of the seat. I > >said that you had deliberately paid for a small seat. Others also > >pointed out that Business Class resolves this. Rather than admit that > >simple fact you now want to take about kids and slobs. Do you want a > >government policy forcing the airlines to gag and handcuff all kids? > > I bought a ticket from the short list of options offered to me. Now you're trying to claim that Expedia doesn't show Business Class??? > If you wish to describe that as "I chose a small seat* be my guest, > but it's a distortion of the actuality as most people would see. You did. You *CHOSE* Economy Class. > My original post was about a range of issues - seat size, overbooking, > long queue to check-in, pressure put on me to accept an alternative > route home, an adjacent passenger who was overflowing into my seat > space and sitting on a plane for two hours before take-off while the > captain lied to passengers about the reason. > > Did you miss all that? No. I was beside myself in tears about your misery. > The debate was expanded to include other issues which trouble people > when flying, like screaming shitty kids and other slobs and these are > certainly issues which trouble me from time to time. > > I have already posted that I do not know what the solution is for (eg) > screaming shitty kids and slobs but the airlines need to do something. > The current approach is to ignore the problems and pass them on to > other passengers. No, your suggestion was have the government run the airlines. > >I think you tipped your hand, though, in the way you phrased the > >statement. Business Class is more expensive than Economy, of course, > >but it does not involved "large sums of money". Perhaps from the > >perspective of someone whose primary goal is "cheap" that's the case. > > The last time I looked at BC ticket prices for long haul -vs- economy > prices, they were considerably more expensive. Yes. But if something is 10 cents and something else is 50 cents that is several times as expensive but it's not "large sums of money". Similarly, the fact that you view the cost of Business Class to be a "large sum of money" explains your view of the situation and provides further proof that you are one of the "Cost is King" consumers who are responsible for driving down the quality of service even as you whine about it. > I would happily pay a 10-20% premium for a seat which guaranteed > me a wider seat (by ~4inches) and no slobs or screaming shitty kids > nearby. Nothing like this is on offer. The service you ask for (wider seat and you get to choose who sits next to you) would cost the airline a whole lot more than 10-20% to provide. Are you willing to pay double or triple the cost? > You see, what the airlines have done is to create a business model > designed to maximise their passenger numbers and revenues but have > done little or nothing to deal with the many irritations that > passengers suffer because of it. Dealing with these "irritations" cost money and those of you who are primarily concerned with cost won't pay the airline to deal with them. > Queues at check-in continue to be a > problem for many people unless you have BC or FC tickets. Narrow seats > are another. Overweight or oversize passengers are another. Restless > kids and slobs are another. You named 4 problems. 3 of them are solved by buying a higher class ticket. So the solution is there. *You* choose not to accept that solution then complain about the result of *your* decision. > These problems are partly the result of deregulation of the market > which gave the airlines the go-ahead to dumb down their services > to transport every slob who has $25 in his/her pocket. Somewhat of a snob, I see. You don't want to fly with the "riff-raff". I hate to say it, but if you look at your posts and the things you've said this "every slob with $25" kind of describes *you*. > >> As a friend said to me some while ago "you might upgrade from economy > >> to FC to get away from screaming shitty kids and slobs, only to find > >> that you're seated close to a FC screaming shitty kid or a rich slob." > > >If your goal is to get away from people you think are inferior to you > >("slobs" is the way you phrased it) then you need to buy your own > >plane or quit flying. > > It's got nothing to do with people who I think are inferior to me. Not according to the things you have said.
From: DevilsPGD on 6 Mar 2007 21:56 In message <1173140773.780305.86440(a)30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> "js" <jonathansmith99(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >Well, Bob - though the pelvic girdle is not exactly circular, the >estimate is valid when BMI exceeds 30 and w/h is less than 0.8 or so. >Since we are talking about lard butts, that pretty much describes >them. And, that said, weight loss would improve that. > >I suppose had you been familiar with the basic etiology of obesity you >wouldn't have looked so foolish. > >Now, what exactly was your contribution? That's what I thought. I could probably lose 80 pounds without my waist changing sizes (based on the fact that my pants size didn't change when I put on weight) But with my body weight that's not where I carry my weight. Of course I'm also 6'3-6'4, which helps. -- Insert something clever here.
From: hummingbird on 7 Mar 2007 06:33
On 6 Mar 2007 18:54:35 -0800 'Tchiowa' posted this onto rec.travel.air: >On Mar 6, 7:15 pm, hummingbird <RHBIYDTNP...(a)spammotel.com> wrote: >> On 5 Mar 2007 16:51:26 -0800 'Tchiowa' >> posted this onto rec.travel.air: > >> >You complained about specific things including size of the seat. I >> >said that you had deliberately paid for a small seat. Others also >> >pointed out that Business Class resolves this. Rather than admit that >> >simple fact you now want to take about kids and slobs. Do you want a >> >government policy forcing the airlines to gag and handcuff all kids? >> >> I bought a ticket from the short list of options offered to me. > >Now you're trying to claim that Expedia doesn't show Business Class??? Certainly not. Where do you get that idea from? FC, BC and Economy were offered to me. Economy Plus was not. >> If you wish to describe that as "I chose a small seat* be my guest, >> but it's a distortion of the actuality as most people would see. > >You did. You *CHOSE* Economy Class. Let's not play sematics. I selected Economy but that does not mean that I like everything about it. In one sense, Economy is a dump class for those who are unable/unwilling to pay the much higher prices of BC or FC, which themselves do not guarantee or necessarily provide the actual conditions desired. I have already said that there are plenty of wealthy slobs who usually fly BC/FC. Wealth is not a good guide to a person's social manners or that of their kids or entourage. >> My original post was about a range of issues - seat size, overbooking, >> long queue to check-in, pressure put on me to accept an alternative >> route home, an adjacent passenger who was overflowing into my seat >> space and sitting on a plane for two hours before take-off while the >> captain lied to passengers about the reason. >> >> Did you miss all that? > >No. I was beside myself in tears about your misery. I'm sure you were. Check out the article posted this day by 'zorba' "Annoying Characters in Flight" on this NG to get some idea of the problems which can and do arise. It's something else for you to launch into tears over. >> The debate was expanded to include other issues which trouble people >> when flying, like screaming shitty kids and other slobs and these are >> certainly issues which trouble me from time to time. >> >> I have already posted that I do not know what the solution is for (eg) >> screaming shitty kids and slobs but the airlines need to do something. >> The current approach is to ignore the problems and pass them on to >> other passengers. > >No, your suggestion was have the government run the airlines. I said nothing of the sort. Are you imagining things? >> >I think you tipped your hand, though, in the way you phrased the >> >statement. Business Class is more expensive than Economy, of course, >> >but it does not involved "large sums of money". Perhaps from the >> >perspective of someone whose primary goal is "cheap" that's the case. >> >> The last time I looked at BC ticket prices for long haul -vs- economy >> prices, they were considerably more expensive. > >Yes. But if something is 10 cents and something else is 50 cents that >is several times as expensive but it's not "large sums of money". True, but flight ticket costs are not measured in cents are they. See the post by Brian in this thread about the extra cost of his BC seats for his trip to Italy this summer. If you still claim that BC seats are not considerably more expensive than Economy seats, then I will have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about. >Similarly, the fact that you view the cost of Business Class to be a >"large sum of money" "large sum of money" were your words not mine. I simply point out that BC seats are considerably more expensive. A fact that you seem to have a problem understanding. >explains your view of the situation and provides >further proof that you are one of the "Cost is King" consumers who are >responsible for driving down the quality of service even as you whine >about it. Not at all. This is a ridiculous analysis of my position. Of course cost is a factor with me as it is with many others but it is not the only factor. Some while ago, I paid 585 sterling with Emirates for a London-Bangkok round trip in the belief that it would be a civilised flight (Emirates claim high standards). Emirates BC was about 3-4 times the price. Although the problems on Emirates were different to those I suffered on BA more recently, the BA trip was only 430 sterling. I also flew London-Seville several months ago for peanuts on Iberia and the flight was excellent. What that lot tells me is that ticket price is not the determining factor and the problems are actually inherent in the airline business models. What you get is a matter of luck more than airline judgement. I put it to you that one reason airlines have long check-in queues and cram narrow seats into Economy class is to encourage people to upgrade to much higher priced BC/FC seats, thereby raising revenues/profits. But it will not guarantee a better quality of flight conditions. I don't know why you have such a problem understanding this. >> I would happily pay a 10-20% premium for a seat which guaranteed >> me a wider seat (by ~4inches) and no slobs or screaming shitty kids >> nearby. Nothing like this is on offer. > >The service you ask for (wider seat and you get to choose who sits >next to you) would cost the airline a whole lot more than 10-20% to >provide. Are you willing to pay double or triple the cost? I have not said that I wish to choose who gets to sit next to me. Many of the problems which I and many others suffer from could be resolved by airlines re-arranging their cabins a little. Perhaps a cabin section called 'quiet cabin' where kids were guaranteed *not* to be seated. Perhaps a slightly wider seat to accomodate larger- than-average people. Perhaps a more efficient check-in facility to reduce queues and you have a 10-20% premium for ticket prices. The airlines could explain the conditions to people when booking. So perhaps my 430 sterling ticket on BA would have cost 500 Such a cabin would attract me more than a standard BC seat. >> You see, what the airlines have done is to create a business model >> designed to maximise their passenger numbers and revenues but have >> done little or nothing to deal with the many irritations that >> passengers suffer because of it. > >Dealing with these "irritations" cost money and those of you who are >primarily concerned with cost won't pay the airline to deal with them. That is nonsense as I've explained several times. You do not understand how business models and marketing work. >> Queues at check-in continue to be a >> problem for many people unless you have BC or FC tickets. Narrow seats >> are another. Overweight or oversize passengers are another. Restless >> kids and slobs are another. > >You named 4 problems. 3 of them are solved by buying a higher class >ticket. So the solution is there. *You* choose not to accept that >solution then complain about the result of *your* decision. My point is that those problems really shouldn't exist in any class. That they do is a direct result of the deregulation of airlines and the dumbing down of their business models to make flying accessible to every jerk who has $25 in his/her pocket. >> These problems are partly the result of deregulation of the market >> which gave the airlines the go-ahead to dumb down their services >> to transport every slob who has $25 in his/her pocket. > >Somewhat of a snob, I see. You don't want to fly with the "riff-raff". I am no snob but otherwise you are correct. Tell me, who does want to fly with the riff-raff? Other riff-raff? Would you like to live next to a neighbour who plays loud booming rap or trance music throughout the night? I think not. Does that make you a snob? >I hate to say it, but if you look at your posts and the things you've >said this "every slob with $25" kind of describes *you*. Rotfl. You are just posting tripe. >> >> As a friend said to me some while ago "you might upgrade from economy >> >> to FC to get away from screaming shitty kids and slobs, only to find >> >> that you're seated close to a FC screaming shitty kid or a rich slob." >> >> >If your goal is to get away from people you think are inferior to you >> >("slobs" is the way you phrased it) then you need to buy your own >> >plane or quit flying. >> >> It's got nothing to do with people who I think are inferior to me. > >Not according to the things you have said. Indeed. |