Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
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From: Mark K. Bilbo on 14 Dec 2006 19:54 On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:43:29 -0800, Constantinople wrote: > brique wrote: >> <constantinopoli(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1166119034.117505.237550(a)f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> > >> > Mark K. Bilbo wrote: >> > >> > > I notice nobody asking why it is tax money has to be spent on ornaments >> > > rather than silly things like, you know, fixing potholes or even >> something >> > > really absurd like airport security... >> > >> > That attitude could help explain why socialist countries have such a >> > reputation for being ugly, spirit-killing places. >> > >> >> What........ like the Bronx and South LA ? > > Did you pick average, representative places in America (in which case > you have a point) or did you cherry pick the worst places in America > you could think of (in which case you don't)? With something over half our population packed into cities, the Bronx and South LA rather *are representative these days... -- Mark K. Bilbo ------------------------------------------------------------ If their omnipotent, omniscient (so they say) god wants me to believe in him, then he should know what would prove his existence to me. He hasn't done so yet, so there is no reason to believe in him. -Woden
From: Sancho Panza on 14 Dec 2006 19:35 "Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1166142337.379979.249960(a)l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... > > Sancho Panza wrote: > > <constantinopoli(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1166134980.971609.224110(a)n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > > > > Thus there is no basis for complaint that Christmas trees and not > > > menorahs were displayed. To complain about such a think is like > > > complaining that banana trees and not orange trees were displayed. > > > > Try to explain why one group shouuld have the right of display and another > > should not. > > Simple. Because one is celebrating an official national holiday and the > other is not. > > Any more questions? Yes. That neglects to explain why there aren't similar decorations for New Year's, Labor Day, Memorial Day, Veterans' Day, Columbus Day, etc etc
From: Sancho Panza on 14 Dec 2006 19:36 "Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1166142441.213901.170750(a)16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com... > > Sancho Panza wrote: > > "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> wrote in message > > news:g083o29k0sig4dskbku3fck5tq29gtdith(a)4ax.com... > > > -- > > > "James A. Donald" > > > > > any one who not only does not celebrate it, but gets > > > > > upset and offended by other people celebrating it, > > > > > is indeed a bigot. > > > > > > "Sancho Panza" > > > > You would no doubt celebrate even more imams and > > > > others taking out their prayer rugs and doing their > > > > thing in the middle of a public place that you are > > > > using. > > > > > > There was no manger at the airport, nor any prayer. The > > > airport Christmas was carefully sanitized of anything > > > with the slightest connection to Christianity. > > > > If the trees have no connection to Christianity, why do basically just > > Christians use them? > > Simply not true. A lot of non-Christians including members of other > religions and atheists who celebrate Christmas as a non-religious > holiday put them up. With the basic intent of stimulating sales revenues from the Christians. Macy's is a good example of that.
From: Sancho Panza on 14 Dec 2006 19:49 "Ricky" <rickshawricky(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1166141997.956270.152400(a)16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com... > Okay. > > Um, what does this have to do with abortion? > > Sound of Trumpet wrote: > > http://www.towardtradition.org/index.cfm?PAGE_ID=235 > > > > > > > > 12.11.2006 Jews Strive to Restore Christmas Trees > > > > > > Jews Strive to Restore Sea-Tac Airport's Christmas Trees > > > > By Rabbi Daniel Lapin > > > > > > > > Well here we go again. It is so utterly predictable. Like clockwork. > > It's December and time for another skirmish in the annual battle > > against Christmas. What compels me to comment is that this time it's > > not the usual secular fanatic who's responsible for doing things that > > evict Christianity from the culture. No, on this sad and alarming > > occasion it's a deeply religious, well-intentioned rabbi who has > > unwittingly stumbled into a situation that will place his denomination > > (and mine)-Orthodox Judaism-in a terrible, negative light. > > > > For at least ten years, Sea-Tac Airport near Seattle has displayed > > several large, beautifully decorated Christmas trees each December. > > With lawyer in tow, a local rabbi recently threatened to sue the Port > > of Seattle if the airport didn't add a Chanukah menorah to the holiday > > display. > > > > Yielding to the ultimatum was not an option for airport management, > > skittish at the best of times since 9-11. Understandably, they > > interpreted the rabbi's threat as only the first. It would not be > > hard to imagine Seattle's Islamic community stepping forward with > > their own lawyer to demand a Moslem symbol be included as well. > > > > With deft turn of phrase, Sea-Tac public affairs manager Terri-Ann > > Betancourt explained that at the busiest travel time of the year, while > > Sea-Tac was focused on getting passengers through the airport, she and > > her staff didn't have time "to play cultural anthropologists." > > > > Threatening a lawsuit, I feel, violates the Jewish principle known in > > Hebrew as Kiddush HaShem, interpreted in the Talmud, part of ancient > > Jewish wisdom, as an action that encourages people to admire Jews. One > > need only read the comments on the Internet following the news accounts > > of the tree removal, to know that most people are feeling indignant and > > hurt. They certainly are not feeling more warmly toward Jews as a > > result of this mess. > > > > Here I disclose that I know the rabbi involved, am friendly with him, > > and am sure that he didn't intend this outcome. I like him, which > > makes it painful for me to point out that when one throws a punch > > (which is what bringing a lawyer and threatening to sue is equivalent > > to) and one gets decked in return, one cannot plead that one didn't > > intend that outcome. > > > > The outcome, whether intended or not, is that now vast numbers of > > passengers, most of whom are probably Christian, will be deprived of > > the cheerful holiday sight of pretty Christmas trees. What is more, > > they will know that their deprivation was caused by a Jewish rabbi. > > The rabbi's lawyer told a television reporter, "There is a concern > > here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch." > > > > No, Mr. Lawyer, it is not that Jews will be "portrayed" as the > > grinch. Sadly, now we are the grinch. You made us the grinch. > > > > Now what is to be done? I have three requests: > > > > I am asking every reader of this column to sign a petition on the > > Toward Tradition website beseeching Sea-Tac management to restore the > > Christmas trees. > > > > I am asking every reader of this column to forward it to others who > > might be willing to sign this petition. > > > > I am asking Jews in the Puget Sound region to join national radio host, > > Michael Medved, and me in offering our volunteer labor to Sea-Tac. We > > hope they will allow us to provide the labor necessary for replacing > > the trees so that airport staff need not be deflected from their > > important duties. > > > > Why am I, an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, so concerned about a few Christmas > > trees? Not for a moment do I believe that American Christians will > > react to this insult with a flurry of anti-Semitic activity. But I do > > feel certain that perhaps in some small way, expelling Christmas > > symbolism from the airport makes it just a little harder to protect > > America's Christian nature. > > > > For centuries, we Jews suffered in a Europe governed by ecclesiastical > > authority. We suffered no less under the secular tyrannies of > > communism. Now, in post-Christian Europe, where both government and > > population are increasingly secular, anti-Semitism is dramatically on > > the rise. In short, we have never thrived under religious government > > or within secular cultures. > > > > During the past two thousand years of Jewish history Jews have never > > enjoyed a more hospitable home than we enjoy here in the United States > > of America. > > > > This is because we have a religiously neutral government and a largely > > religious Christian population. Most American Christians love Jews and > > support Israel unconditionally because of their commitment to the Bible > > and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Evidence from across the > > Atlantic persuades me that our lot will deteriorate if America's > > population gradually becomes secularized and removing the Christmas > > trees makes that disturbing likelihood, over time, more probable. Yes, > > public symbols are very important. > > > > Years ago we Jews advocated for full equality. Today, with thirteen > > Jewish United States senators, over thirty Jewish congressmen, two Jews > > on the Supreme Court, and disproportionate Jewish representation in > > media and entertainment, one could reasonably say we have achieved it. > > But back then, the only culture in America was Christian. Today, > > however, America is home to many faiths, not all of them friendly > > towards Judaism. > > > > Today, agitating for Jewish religious representation in the culture > > inevitably results not in equating Judaism with Christianity but the > > removal of both Judaism and Christianity. In other words, pushing for > > the menorah means removal of the Christmas tree and the triumph of > > secularism. Europe, both past and present, teaches us that if America > > becomes secularized, Jews suffer. > > > > For fifteen years I have insisted that for Jews to oppose Christianity > > in America is a mistake. The world today is populated by millions who > > harbor festering hatred for Jews. There remains one group of people > > who love and support us and they are America's Evangelical > > Christians. What possible sense does it make to fight your friends by > > stripping their symbols from sight? And the converse should hold, too.
From: Sancho Panza on 14 Dec 2006 19:47
"Tchiowa" <tchiowa2(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1166141420.177019.102130(a)73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com... > > Sancho Panza wrote: > > "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> wrote in message > > news:1q22o2tk6mvuj1rse31hh73mn9h6q2pc04(a)4ax.com... > > > "James A. Donald" > > >> > But you guys are trying to suppress even the secular > > >> > aspects of Christmas - you were suing against the > > >> > display of Christmas trees, not the display of > > >> > stables and mangers. You are suing against the > > >> > stuff that people see in Singapore > > > > > > "Sancho Panza" > > >> Pretty fast on the trigger with "you guys." Just what > > >> guys do you mean? > > > > > > By "you guys" I mean everyone that gets so enraged by > > > the symbols of Christianity that they cannot even stand > > > symbols that are associated with the symbols of > > > Christianity - I mean commies, militant Jews, radical > > > islamists, Gaia worshippers, the usual. Hindus, > > > animists and ancestor worshippers somehow never have > > > this problem. > > > > But you are saying in posts right around this one that it is not a religious > > symbol. Which is it, religious or not? If it's a symbol of Christianity, as > > you say here, why should other faiths not be similarly represented? > > 1) A Christmas tree is not a symbol of Christianity, it's a symbol of a > national holiday. Other holidays, maybe with the exception of Thanksgiving, don't have symbols. And nowhere is the tree designated as the symbol of the holiday. > 2) Other faiths aren't relevant because of that fact. Of course they are. They have nothing to do with the tree. > 3) Christmas is the holiday, not Kwanzaa or Ramadan or anything else. You're coming close to making an argument that Christmas should no longer be designated as a holiday. Scalia and Souter, among the others, would probably love to engage in that debate. |