Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
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From: James A. Donald on 14 Dec 2006 14:37 "Anarcissie": > Yes, that's the question. Why is it so important? Because there is no stopping point, no possibility of compromise. Every concession has been met by demands for further concessions, and the net effect of all these concessions is starting to seriously inconvenience, aggravate and offend. We thought we had a deal, the deal being to hide away anything with the slightest religious connotation, and we followed that deal, and it turns out we do not have a deal. Where do we go from here? Maybe we need to build a big separation wall, with those who cannot stand Christmas on one side of the wall and those who want to celebrate Christmas on the other, and then ethnically cleanse whoever is on the wrong side of the wall. :-) -- ---------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald
From: Arturo Magidin on 14 Dec 2006 15:01 In article <1166124589.018088.181400(a)16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>, <markzoom(a)digiverse.net> wrote: > >Arturo Magidin wrote: >> >So you wouldn't mind an 8' swastika, a symbol used in various current >> >and recognised religions, either then? >> >> The nazi swastika is different from the symbol in eastern religions; >> the fold goes the other way. > >Who said anything about the nazi swastika? Fair enough. As I understand it, "swastika" refers to the nazi symbol; the hindu symbol is called "shubthika" (good symbol). >> >Many of those that know a Menorah is the official emblem of the Israeli >> >government would see it as a symbol of another invasion of territory. >> >> The Hanukyah (Hanukah-menorah) is different from the Menorah in the >> national emblem. Much like the star of David is different from the wiccan 5 >> pointed star. >> >> The Menorah in the national emblem is a seven-branched >> candelabrum. The Hanukyah, by contrast, is a nine-branched >> candelabrum. > >A minor detail. Hardly a minor detail. Just like only the official emblem of the american government must be a bald eagle, not just any kind of eagle, so the national emblem of Israel must be a seven branched candelabrum; a Hanukyah ->must<- be a nine branched candelabrum. Quite simply, they are not the same thing. Just like the wiccan star and the Star of David are not the same thing. If you want to object to a Hanukyah display on some other grounds, go ahead; we can deal with those. But claiming that it is "the official emblem of the israeli government" is, quite simply, false. -- ====================================================================== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes" by Bill Watterson) ====================================================================== Arturo Magidin magidin-at-member-ams-org
From: Arturo Magidin on 14 Dec 2006 15:06 In article <1166124904.436392.294780(a)f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, <markzoom(a)digiverse.net> wrote: > >Arturo Magidin wrote: >> markzoom(a)digiverse.net wrote: >> > Mark K. Bilbo wrote: >> > > On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:02:49 -0800, Laura Sanchez wrote: >> > > >> > > >> Too bad Christianity doesn't return the favor. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Excuse me? It's Christians that are the only ones defending Israel and >> > > > denouncing anti-Semitism. >> > > >> > > By refusing to add a menorah to the airport display? >> > >> > It's not just some kind of festive decoration. >> > The menorah is the NATIONAL EMBLEM OF THE "STATE" OF ISRAEL Like the >> > eagle is to the US!: >> > >> > http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp >> >> You are confused. >> >> The Menorah, the symbol that appears in the official seal of the state >> of Israel, is a seven-arm candelabra; the Hanukiyah, the "Hanuka >> menorah" has a different number of arms. They are different emblems, >> just like the Star of David is different from the Wiccan five-pointed >> star. > >A minor detail, just like people will first think "nazi" when they see >a swastika, no matter which way round it is. If that is your "argument" with regards to this, then you have just shot yourself in the foot. The vast majority of americans identify the candelabrum (7- or 9-branched) with Hanukah, not with the state of Israel. They call both "menorah" (the former correclty, the latter incorrectly), and usually misidentify a 7 branched candelabrum as a Hanukyah and think "Hanukah". Few are aware of the difference, and the overwhelming association is that of the holiday, not the political association (exactly the opposite of the shubhtika, where most people will misidentify it as political rather than religious). In any case, you claimed that the 9-branch candelabrum ->is<- the "national emblem of the "State" of Israel". And that is, quite simply, false. Explain it away all you want now, you were still wrong. -- ====================================================================== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes" by Bill Watterson) ====================================================================== Arturo Magidin magidin-at-member-ams-org
From: Constantinople on 14 Dec 2006 15:09 James A. Donald wrote: > "Anarcissie": > > Yes, that's the question. Why is it so important? > > Because there is no stopping point, no possibility of > compromise. Every concession has been met by demands > for further concessions, and the net effect of all these > concessions is starting to seriously inconvenience, > aggravate and offend. We thought we had a deal, the deal > being to hide away anything with the slightest religious > connotation, and we followed that deal, and it turns out > we do not have a deal. Where do we go from here? > > Maybe we need to build a big separation wall, with those > who cannot stand Christmas on one side of the wall and > those who want to celebrate Christmas on the other, and > then ethnically cleanse whoever is on the wrong side of > the wall. :-) As I understand it, Christmas is the winter solstice holiday (possibly a merging of various winter solstice holidays, for example Yule) and predates Christianity, is in fact prehistoric in origin. Christians merely borrowed it for a while. Thus, not only is Christmas not now exclusively Christian, it never was exclusively Christian. The point has been raised - a valid point - that Christ was not actually born at Christmas. That disparity is explained by the fact that the holiday which we call Christmas predates and was borrowed by Christianity. The holiday contains some symbols of Christian origin but also some symbols of pre-Christian origin. Just as, every Christmas, we sing and hear sung songs of varying ages, some of them recent, others older, others very old, so have other traditions accrued around the day, some of them Christian, some of them pre-Christian, some of them post-Christian. Christmas is the product of cultural evolution. Every Christmas new songs are concocted, but only the best stick, only the best are repeated, and what we hear every Christmas, the songs of varying ages, are the best songs, the surviving songs. Thus Christmas is a repository of cultural accretions going back centuries, a repository that has been selected and improved over time, sloughing off the inferior candidates and keeping the superior candidates, which become part of the traditions.
From: James A. Donald on 14 Dec 2006 15:20
dsharavii(a)hotmail.com: > > > > Better still -- buy a one-way trip to Saudi > > > > Arabia. There are NO Xmas trees in their > > > > airports -- or anywhere else. "Anarcissie" > > > I have been told otherwise. James A. Donald > > Googling for Saudi persecution of Christians, the > > first hit tells me: > > : : At least eight other Filipinos arrested > > : : in the police crackdown on suspected > > : : Christian worshippers have reportedly > > : : been transferred out of detention cells, > > : : in preparation for their imminent > > : : deportation later this week. > > > > The next hit tells me: > > : : Islam is the official religion of the > > : : Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and all citizens > > : : must be Muslims. The Government prohibits > > : : the public practice of other religions. "Anarcissie" > I'm just reporting what I've been told. Yes, the wisdom of the tribe, one commie tells another what he wishes was true, and the second commie tells it back to the first commie, and after it has gone the circle three times, they start to believe it. Similarly with commie citations, the infamous trail of breadcrumbs citation. One commie reports that a bunch of businessmen came together to support Hitler, and cites some learned commie scholar, who as evidence for the truth of it, cites another learned commie scholar, who in turn ... -- ---------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald |